Ich or Brooklynella Outbreak in DT

[markushio40b]

Hello everyone,

I’m sure some parts of this have been answered in other threads, but I’m looking for other answers I couldn’t find the answers to.

tank stats:

// 40 gallon breeder
// 40lbs live sand and 40lbs live rock
// seachem tidal 55 HOB filter, heater, 2 wavemakers, and smatfarm G5

current livestock:

// 2 clownfish
// 1 valentini puffer
// 1 scopas tang
// 1 lattice butterfly
// 1 ywm goby
// 2 emerald crabs
// 3 turbo snails
// 1 pistol shrimp
// 1 chocolate chip starfish
// 1 yellowtail damsel (died yesterday)
// 1 Diamond goby (died a day ago)

I believe I’m dealing with either an ich or Brooklynella outbreak right now. Damsel was acting weird before it died and now my smaller clown is acting the same way. Swimming at the bottom, sometimes laying on the bottom. Scratching, showing signs of white spots and mucus. Puffer is swimming at the surface, has white spots around his eyes and also has heavy mucus causing sand to stick to the bottom of his body.

I’m in no position to be able to set up a quarantine tank as I have limited outlets and resources. It’s a FOWLR tank, so can I treat directly in my DT? I’ve read that some treatments won’t be good to my CUC, but at this point im willing to take a chance to save the fish that cost me more money. Im really getting upset and have been starting to wonder if this is for me as I’ve saved and spent so much to get to this point. I don’t want to give up on the hobby, but I also don’t want to kill fish from inexperience. I need some help and maybe it’s too late for medication at this point. Not sure if I should attempt a solution or just let nature run its course. Will do my best to attach a video. Any and all advice will be most helpful. Thank you

 

[markushio40b]

Not sure if the video works so here’s some screen shots from the video

 

[Icryhard]

That looks to be brooklynella on the fish. Maybe this could help you out: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/brooklynella.247938/ a treatment for brooklynella. I don't know how the shrimps and stuff and whether they can survive it. @vetteguy53081 and @Jay Hemdal can provide definitive answers and solutions.

 

[threebuoys]

What symptoms did the other fish display prior to their death? Does the tang show any symptoms? How long have you had each of the fish (still alive or dead)?

Are any of the fish showing rapid, labored breathing?

Any treatment medication will likely kill any invertebrates in your display tank. Additionally, the calcareous gravel and live rock will likely absorb any medication you add to the display tank. The absorption process will result in difficulty maintaining the necessary medication concentration during the treatment period. You will need to monitor daily at a minimum and be prepared to add incremental doses. If the med levels drop below target levels, the treatment will be ineffective.

Depending on the other fish conditions, you may have multiple issues occurring.

Brooklynella is also called the clownfish disease because it targets that species. However, Brook does not usually present with white spots.

Ich does present with white spots, but mucus plugs does also. Another possible illness is velvet which presents with heavy mucus / slime and very rapid breathing quickly (2-3 days) followed by death.

The treatments for these diseases are different and hence the need for accurate diagnosis. Formalin based products are needed for Brook while Copper is needed for Ich or velvet. Hypo-salinity is an alternative treatment for ich, but does not work for brook or velvet..

Posts in the sticky section describes the treatment protocol in great detail.

Clearer, crisper, larger photos plus video to assist in observing breathing will help in the diagnosis process.

I understand your issues with establishing a QT. In the long run, the QT option will be the best way to handle issues like this without totally disrupting your display tank and your hobby.

 

[markushio40b]

The damsel wasn’t swimming towards to surface or at the bottom. Coloration was off, and it was seen scratching against some rocks and that was about it. The Diamond goby didn’t show any real signs except for labored breathing right before it died. Happened overnight so I didn’t see exactly what happened when it died either.

Other fish, including the other clown are behaving normal. As well as the tang. I haven’t noticed anything odd with him when regarding his swimming or eating habits.

got the clownfish at the end of March and the damsel and puffer the following week. Both from the same fish store that does QT and dips to all their fish before releasing for sale. Only had the Goby for about a week before it died also from the same lfs.

I will try again to add a video

 

[markushio40b]

Seems the only way I can show the videos are by uploading to YouTube and sharing the link. Please let me know if they work.

Sick clownfish diagnosis

youtube.com

Sick puffer fish diagnosis

youtube.com

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Tough to see clearly in the videos, but I don not see any distinct, salt-sized white spots that would indicate an ich infection. I do see mucus, and that is more a sign of Brooklynella (but is also seen in late stage ich infections).

Either way, it is a protozoan disease. Once fish loss has happened due to a protozoan disease, "reef safe" medications typically do not work, they simply are not strong enough to stop the disease in time to prevent additional fish loss.

Brooklynella is a particular issue, as the best treatment for that is formalin, which is toxic to people and difficult to source. Ruby Reef Rally Pro can be used, but it works best as a dip and then moving the fish to a sterile tank. You can try dosing Rally Pro in the main tank at the "reef safe" dose, but I'm worried it won't be strong enough.

Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

I agree not ich but appears to be secondary lesions associated with brook. Pics are somewhat blue and hard to depict whats on the fish but some signs of brook is mucus which generally starts at the facial area as well as gills and spreads across the body producing lesions as it progresses often confused with ich and can turn into secondary bacteria. Other symptoms will be lethargic behavior, refusing to eat and heavy breathing from the mucus.
As jay indicated, treatment is best done in a QT tank using either quick cure (more effective but now harder to find) or Ruby Rally Pro. Ruby takes a little longer and initial treatment generally takes 2-3 days to really start going to work.
If ruby Rally is not available for immediate use, temporary relief can be achieved by giving the fish a FW bath or dip in water same temperature as display tank. Even though this treatment will not cure the disease, it can help to remove some of the parasites, as well as reduce the amount of mucus in the gills to assist with respiration problems.

 

[markushio40b]

If I’m able to get the Ruby Rally Pro and move into a QT tank, would that potentially help cure them? It almost sounds like these methods are a treatment and not necessarily a way to eradicate the disease.

 

[markushio40b]

Lost the clownfish this morning.

LFS thinks it’s Brooklynella and told me to continue using the ParaGuard in the display tank, weekly 10g water changes, and they gave me a medicated flake food to introduce into their diet. Feel like it’s not enough and that my Valentini Puffer will be next. It’s almost like I’m just watching them die off one by one.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Lost the clownfish this morning.

LFS thinks it’s Brooklynella and told me to continue using the ParaGuard in the display tank, weekly 10g water changes, and they gave me a medicated flake food to introduce into their diet. Feel like it’s not enough and that my Valentini Puffer will be next. It’s almost like I’m just watching them die off one by one.

We too expressed Brook and Ruby rally would have been the treatment. paraguard is rendered useless as paraguard has no antibiotics and is a diluted malachite green solution with aloe for protection of slime coat and in No way addressed brooklynella

 

[markushio40b]

LFS didn’t have Rally Pro so I ordered off Amazon and will be here tomorrow. They also said that based on my water test, that I need to get my water parameters in line before I should even consider medicating. That the high Nitrites could be the contributing factor.

I’m really new to this hobby, but I feel like the nitrite spike is due to the 3 fish that have died over the past 3 days due to the outbreak. Feel like they aren’t giving me good remedies to solving the problem but without that much experience or knowledge I’m not sure. Definitely want to start the Rally Pro tomorrow, but for now I’ll still do the ParaGuard today. I’m also completing the setup for a QT tank of all fish need to be removed due to the invertebrates in the DT.

I’ve attached the results of the “spin test” that the LFS did on my water.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

LFS didn’t have Rally Pro so I ordered off Amazon and will be here tomorrow. They also said that based on my water test, that I need to get my water parameters in line before I should even consider medicating. That the high Nitrites could be the contributing factor.

I’m really new to this hobby, but I feel like the nitrite spike is due to the 3 fish that have died over the past 3 days due to the outbreak. Feel like they aren’t giving me good remedies to solving the problem but without that much experience or knowledge I’m not sure. Definitely want to start the Rally Pro tomorrow, but for now I’ll still do the ParaGuard today. I’m also completing the setup for a QT tank of all fish need to be removed due to the invertebrates in the DT.

I’ve attached the results of the “spin test” that the LFS did on my water.

Just to clarify - the nitrite level isn't an issue. Nitrite is not toxic to marine fish at levels you would ever see. It is VERY toxic to freshwater fish. What happens is that some people don't understand that, and think nitrite is toxic to marine fish when it is not.

Jay

 

[markushio40b]

Thank you for clarifying that. I thought the same thing, but didn’t want to start an argument with my LFS.

I’ve just transferred all my fish into the QT tank. I will start the Rally treatment tomorrow when it arrives.