Ich outbreak

[wisnia99]

How big is your tank?

 

[hexcolor reef]

I didn’t think about hyposalinity. How can I do it? Could you tell me more about it please?
I hope you see the issue on the pictures. I will try to take more better quality ones later on and post it here. Thank you for your suggestion.

I tried hyposalinity as well as dropping temps to around 70df. it doesn’t work it always comes back. My fish are still alive and all I do is feed fish a lot

 

[Raynn]

What would you suggest, wait a bit longer, still treat them with Polylab medic, soak food in garlic etc, or start setting the other tank just for corals, and do hyposalinity in my dt?

 

[Uncle99]

If you are confident that you have an ick outbreak, then at least be prepared to take action.

Removing and maintaining inverts separately for 70 ish days can result in losses as well.

Me, I’d like a little to see at least, one cycle, so dots, then in 3-4 days no dots, then next day dots and more this time, and/or stopping eating abruptly.

Then Iam leaning towards treating.

 

[MnFish1]

I do agree with you unless you have no hospitality tank setup.

Its not clear how big the fish are - but a hospital tank is not that difficult to set up, and as someone said it might be easier to do hyposalinity after moving the invertebrates to a new 'tank'

 

[MnFish1]

What would you suggest, wait a bit longer, still treat them with Polylab medic, soak food in garlic etc, or start setting the other tank just for corals, and do hyposalinity in my dt?

The current R2R fish medic recommendations are that polyplab is not effective if there is an active infection, though it may help prevent an infection. The answer to your question depends on how easy it would be for you to move one vs. the other

 

[Raynn]

My friend has closed marine tank a while ago, he said he can give me his 100 litres tank with all equipment I need to start it. How long will I need to wait until I put all corals, shrimps, snails, starfish etc in there? Can I use water from my display tank, or I can transfer ich with corals again when I finish hyposalinity?

 

[Raynn]

If you are confident that you have an ick outbreak, then at least be prepared to take action.

Removing and maintaining inverts separately for 70 ish days can result in losses as well.

Me, I’d like a little to see at least, one cycle, so dots, then in 3-4 days no dots, then next day dots and more this time, and/or stopping eating abruptly.

Then Iam leaning towards treating.

I noticed ich on my fishes on 21.11.23, they haven’t really disappeared since. Fishes have had less dots, but hasn’t been totally clear of them.

 

[MnFish1]

My friend has closed marine tank a while ago, he said he can give me his 100 litres tank with all equipment I need to start it. How long will I need to wait until I put all corals, shrimps, snails, starfish etc in there? Can I use water from my display tank, or I can transfer ich with corals again when I finish hyposalinity?

You can use water from your display. You will have some biofiltration in your coral tank since 1) corals can use ammonia, 2) the bioload is very low. You would let the 'coral tank' be fallow without fish for 60-76 days depending on which protocol you're using. Then - you can add the coral back to your display without risk of transmitting ich

 

[Raynn]

Its not clear how big the fish are - but a hospital tank is not that difficult to set up, and as someone said it might be easier to do hyposalinity after moving the invertebrates to a new 'tank'

I have 100 gal tank, the biggest fish I have is powder blue tang which is about 4 inch.

 

[MnFish1]

I noticed ich on my fishes on 21.11.23, they haven’t really disappeared since. Fishes have had less dots, but hasn’t been totally clear of them.

The key to the diagnosis is that one day a spot will be at spot x, the next day it could be gone - and another one appears at spot xxx

 

[Uncle99]

I noticed ich on my fishes on 21.11.23, they haven’t really disappeared since. Fishes have had less dots, but hasn’t been totally clear of them.

So appears at this time not to be getting worse and maybe a bit better……I’d just see if that continues.

Mine took a full 3 weeks from first dots to no dots and, during that time, no one else caught it.

 

[Uncle99]

I have 100 gal tank, the biggest fish I have is powder blue tang which is about 4 inch.

Not always a model citizen, but stunning!

 

[Raynn]

Not always a model citizen, but stunn

So appears at this time not to be getting worse and maybe a bit better……I’d just see if that continues.

Mine took a full 3 weeks from first dots to no dots and, during that time, no one else caught it.

How did you manage your ich outbreak?

 

[Raynn]

Also, I noticed there is something wrong with my hammer coral as on the picture. Could it be caused by Polylab medic? I have seen some post on forums, that it may stress corals out.

 

[Uncle99]

How did you manage your ich outbreak?

Honestly, I did nothing at all…..no changes.
It was not possible anyways, I can’t get anyone out without destroying the scape and 5 years coral growth.

Unfortunately, it would be cheaper for me to replace all the fish. My thinking is if the fish get ick, only the strong will survive, but, should it come again down the road, my hopes are they can withstand it.

Ick had come twice, a year or so apart.

Only the blue, about 12-15 dots first, then maybe 25.
Then back to 12 ish, then fewer, then a couple, then gone.

The choice to take action whereas we upset our systems must be taken with care to ensure we only do what is required at the time, and no more.

But I do that only cause I have no choice.

If I was totally set up for a full QT and new exactly what I was doing then I would treat them all.

 

[Uncle99]

Also, I noticed there is something wrong with my hammer coral as on the picture. Could it be caused by Polylab medic? I have seen some post on forums, that it may stress corals out.

Yes, likely. We don’t know what’s in these products or how it may affect water chemistry.

If you’re going to do ick maintenance, It’s best to keep your system absolutely normal.
ick loves stress.

If you have ick and can reasonably treat, go ahead, that makes sense, waiting carries its own risks, but, ick does not kill every fish every time.

It’s a tough choice.

 

[Raynn]

I hope all my fishes will survive. I checked reviews of this medication before I ordered it. Some people used it with success, some with not. I will carry on using it for another 11 days as instruction says.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I am almost sure that it is ich. Please see more pictures attached.

The large spots on the hepatus tang are not ich, those are mucus plugs caused by stress (which ich can cause!). However, when I look REALLY closely, I can see finer white dots on that tang. Those are ich trophonts. Since you don't seem to have options for splitting the fish and corals apart and handling them separately, you may need to make a value call - which are more important to you, the corals or the fish? If the fish, then move the corals out the best you can and treat the display with hyposalinity (which will handle flukes as well). If the corals are more valuable to you, then you'll pretty much need to hang your hat on "ich management". Please understand that it very often fails to manage moderate to severe cases. You are already doing part of that, but there is more you can do:

Starting Ich Management during an active infection only works if the number of trophonts on the fish is below a certain number. Above that number and the trophonts themselves become stressors and the parasite gains a foothold, despite your attempts to manage it. So what is that number? It depends on too many variables - but I start to expect Ich Management to fail if the number of spots on any one fish is above 30 or so.

Here is my protocol for ich management. Please understand that I am NOT presenting this as an optimum method for controlling ich, just putting it out there for people who want to try it. Also, do not pick and choose which items you want to follow - you need to go with all guns blazing and use them all.

“Ich Management” Because many aquarists mix fish and invertebrates, they are ill-prepared to then treat for marine ich, as the two best treatments, amine-based copper or hyposalinity, cannot be used with invertebrates. A popular technique has then arisen, “ich management”. It is popular not because it works well, but because it is an easier alternative. Be forewarned, it often fails if applied during moderate infections. The reason that it exists as a technique at all is because people find themselves in situations like this and are desperate to try anything.

The basic idea is to reduce the infective propagules (tomites) of the ich parasite to the point where the fish's acquired immunity can fight the infection off. This is done through a series of techniques for stress reduction and tomite limiting. Unfortunately, the ich tomites themselves cause stress to the fish, so if the fish have more than 30 or so trophonts on them, the method often fails.

1) Install a powerful UV sterilizer on the aquarium.
2) Ensure that the fish's diet and water quality are the best you can make them.
3) Keep the water temperature close to 78 degrees F.
4) Siphon off the tank floor nightly to remove as many tomonts as possible.
5) Employ strong filtration to trap as many tomites as possible.
6) Try a proprietary "reef safe" marine ich medication. These rarely cure ich infections on their own, but some may have benefit when combined with other management methods. Avoid the herbal remedies, focus on those that contain peroxide salts. There is, however, some evidence that using peroxides with UV does not work, as the UV can break down the peroxides.

Jay

 

[Raynn]

The large spots on the hepatus tang are not ich, those are mucus plugs caused by stress (which ich can cause!). However, when I look REALLY closely, I can see finer white dots on that tang. Those are ich trophonts. Since you don't seem to have options for splitting the fish and corals apart and handling them separately, you may need to make a value call - which are more important to you, the corals or the fish? If the fish, then move the corals out the best you can and treat the display with hyposalinity (which will handle flukes as well). If the corals are more valuable to you, then you'll pretty much need to hang your hat on "ich management". Please understand that it very often fails to manage moderate to severe cases. You are already doing part of that, but there is more you can do:

Starting Ich Management during an active infection only works if the number of trophonts on the fish is below a certain number. Above that number and the trophonts themselves become stressors and the parasite gains a foothold, despite your attempts to manage it. So what is that number? It depends on too many variables - but I start to expect Ich Management to fail if the number of spots on any one fish is above 30 or so.

Here is my protocol for ich management. Please understand that I am NOT presenting this as an optimum method for controlling ich, just putting it out there for people who want to try it. Also, do not pick and choose which items you want to follow - you need to go with all guns blazing and use them all.

“Ich Management” Because many aquarists mix fish and invertebrates, they are ill-prepared to then treat for marine ich, as the two best treatments, amine-based copper or hyposalinity, cannot be used with invertebrates. A popular technique has then arisen, “ich management”. It is popular not because it works well, but because it is an easier alternative. Be forewarned, it often fails if applied during moderate infections. The reason that it exists as a technique at all is because people find themselves in situations like this and are desperate to try anything.

The basic idea is to reduce the infective propagules (tomites) of the ich parasite to the point where the fish's acquired immunity can fight the infection off. This is done through a series of techniques for stress reduction and tomite limiting. Unfortunately, the ich tomites themselves cause stress to the fish, so if the fish have more than 30 or so trophonts on them, the method often fails.

1) Install a powerful UV sterilizer on the aquarium.
2) Ensure that the fish's diet and water quality are the best you can make them.
3) Keep the water temperature close to 78 degrees F.
4) Siphon off the tank floor nightly to remove as many tomonts as possible.
5) Employ strong filtration to trap as many tomites as possible.
6) Try a proprietary "reef safe" marine ich medication. These rarely cure ich infections on their own, but some may have benefit when combined with other management methods. Avoid the herbal remedies, focus on those that contain peroxide salts. There is, however, some evidence that using peroxides with UV does not work, as the UV can break down the peroxides.

Jay

Thank you for your advice Jay.
It seemes like my regal tang has more than 30 dots, however it is only one fish which have that many. I will try to manage ich with advices you gave me for another few days, if it won’t help, or get even worst, then I will have to move all the corals to another tank which I am going to set up shortly. I will update you.