ICP Analysis

[anthonygf]

Hello Randy and R2R friends.
I need some help with a few elements.
Test results show; Recommended by ICP
Cobalt, 0ppb, - 2.0ppb
Iron, 4.956ppb, - 10.0ppb
Mang, 0.3ppb, - 4ppb
Vanadium, 5.14ppb, - 2ppb
Zinc, 0.0ppb, - 20ppb

Should I dose any? Is that zinc reading possible?

I have a 75 gallon mixed, 10 gallon water change weekly, add 5 ml of Kent Essential Elements with WC. My nitrates at 25 for 3 years now steady, phos 27 ULR and dropping, was at 67 three weeks ago. Corals are growing slow, my Duncan has been closed up for over a year and just now is making an appearance, which is a good sign. What do you think? I dose everything manually.

Thanks for reading and any wisdom you all would like to share.
Tony
I am having trouble separating results from ICP list.

 

[MnFish1]

Hello Randy and R2R friends.
I need some help with a few elements.
Test results show; Recommended by ICP
Cobalt, 0ppb, - 2.0ppb
Iron, 4.956ppb, - 10.0ppb
Mang, 0.3ppb, - 4ppb
Vanadium, 5.14ppb, - 2ppb
Zinc, 0.0ppb, - 20ppb

Should I dose any? Is that zinc reading possible?

I have a 75 gallon mixed, 10 gallon water change weekly, add 5 ml of Kent Essential Elements with WC. My nitrates at 25 for 3 years now steady, phos 27 ULR and dropping, was at 67 three weeks ago. Corals are growing slow, my Duncan has been closed up for over a year and just now is making an appearance, which is a good sign. What do you think? I dose everything manually.

Thanks for reading and any wisdom you all would like to share.
Tony
I am having trouble separating results from ICP list.

Can you post a picture of the ICP results and the 'normal' range.

 

[anthonygf]

Can you post a picture of the ICP results and the 'normal' range.

I can't insert image, will keep trying.

 

[MnFish1]

I can't insert image, will keep trying.

Save the image as. JPEG - then click 'attach files'

 

[anthonygf]

I know how to attach files but there is no option to select jpeg.

 

[BZOFIQ]

take a screenshot and save as jpeg?

 

[anthonygf]

Okay, finally figured it out.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I do not know if the values are accurate, but it is fairly common to have several trace elements low or undetectable. That doesn't necessarily mean they are actually low compared to natural seawater, but it can suggest it may be worth an experiment to dose them.

Here's what I found for these same elements using Triton:

My Triton Testing Results: By Randy Holmes-Farley - REEFEDITION

Recently, Triton GmbH in Germany has initiated a method of testing many ions at once for a single price. In the US, that service is coordinated by Unique Corals. For $49 they will send you a couple of tubes to collect a tank water sample, and a prepaid mailer to send the sample back to them...

www.reefedition.com

Iron (Fe). The natural iron level varies a lot with depth, but surface seawater may have only 0.006 µg/L. The Triton LOD = 0.3 µg/L. I dose iron, and when I dose it I boost iron to roughly 1-2 µg/L, which would be detectable. This sample was taken more than a week after the last iron dosing, and none was detected as it gets depleted in the meanwhile. I’ve not yet seen a Triton test result for a real aquarium sample that had detectable iron, but that doesn’t mean these tanks are necessarily deficient. Iron is also a case where the form is critical, and ICP cannot distinguish form. Binding to organic matter, for example, can alter the bioavailability of iron.

Cobalt (Co). Cobalt is present in natural seawater at roughly 0.006 µg/L. The Triton LOD = 0.4 µg/L), so having none detected may be fine. We cannot really tell much, unless there is a substantial excess.

Vanadium (V). Triton can just barely detect the natural level of vanadium (1.8 µg/L) since their LOD is 0.9 µg/L. Still, detecting none suggests it may be depleted, and is another possibility for dosing.

Zinc (Zn). The zinc is about spot on, so there’s not much to say about it.

Manganese (Mn). Triton can just barely detect the natural level of manganese (0.17 µg/L) since their LOD is 0.12 µg/L. Detecting none suggests it may be depleted, and is another possibility for dosing, but I have less confidence that this one is really seriously depleted since it is so close to the LOD. But Mn is biologically important and I will consider it.

 

[taricha]

Test results show; Recommended by ICP
Cobalt, 0ppb, - 2.0ppb
Iron, 4.956ppb, - 10.0ppb
Mang, 0.3ppb, - 4ppb
Vanadium, 5.14ppb, - 2ppb
Zinc, 0.0ppb, - 20ppb

Based on data collected and put together by @Rick Mathew, @Dan_P and myself in this article....



and the color code key here...

Based on this, ICP-A cannot repeatably distinguish zero from 10ppb for Co, and maybe or maybe not for Mn and V. So I would not be confident they can distinguish your values and their recommended targets from zero for those.

They look fine at distinguishing zero from 10ppb for Fe and Zn. So I'd conclude that your Fe is fine, and your Zn is well below their target of 20ppb.

 

[anthonygf]

I do not know if the values are accurate, but it is fairly common to have several trace elements low or undetectable. That doesn't necessarily mean they are actually low compared to natural seawater, but it can suggest it may be worth an experiment to dose them.

Here's what I found for these same elements using Triton:

My Triton Testing Results: By Randy Holmes-Farley - REEFEDITION

Recently, Triton GmbH in Germany has initiated a method of testing many ions at once for a single price. In the US, that service is coordinated by Unique Corals. For $49 they will send you a couple of tubes to collect a tank water sample, and a prepaid mailer to send the sample back to them...

www.reefedition.com

Iron (Fe). The natural iron level varies a lot with depth, but surface seawater may have only 0.006 µg/L. The Triton LOD = 0.3 µg/L. I dose iron, and when I dose it I boost iron to roughly 1-2 µg/L, which would be detectable. This sample was taken more than a week after the last iron dosing, and none was detected as it gets depleted in the meanwhile. I’ve not yet seen a Triton test result for a real aquarium sample that had detectable iron, but that doesn’t mean these tanks are necessarily deficient. Iron is also a case where the form is critical, and ICP cannot distinguish form. Binding to organic matter, for example, can alter the bioavailability of iron.

Cobalt (Co). Cobalt is present in natural seawater at roughly 0.006 µg/L. The Triton LOD = 0.4 µg/L), so having none detected may be fine. We cannot really tell much, unless there is a substantial excess.

Vanadium (V). Triton can just barely detect the natural level of vanadium (1.8 µg/L) since their LOD is 0.9 µg/L. Still, detecting none suggests it may be depleted, and is another possibility for dosing.

Zinc (Zn). The zinc is about spot on, so there’s not much to say about it.

Manganese (Mn). Triton can just barely detect the natural level of manganese (0.17 µg/L) since their LOD is 0.12 µg/L. Detecting none suggests it may be depleted, and is another possibility for dosing, but I have less confidence that this one is really seriously depleted since it is so close to the LOD. But Mn is biologically important and I will consider it.

Thanks Randy, that means alot. I will dig further when I get time.

 

[anthonygf]

Based on data collected and put together by @Rick Mathew, @Dan_P and myself in this article....



and the color code key here...

Based on this, ICP-A cannot repeatably distinguish zero from 10ppb for Co, and maybe or maybe not for Mn and V. So I would not be confident they can distinguish your values and their recommended targets from zero for those.

They look fine at distinguishing zero from 10ppb for Fe and Zn. So I'd conclude that your Fe is fine, and your Zn is well below their target of 20ppb.

Thanks Taricha, I will look at this later when I get the time.

 

[anthonygf]

I do not know if the values are accurate, but it is fairly common to have several trace elements low or undetectable. That doesn't necessarily mean they are actually low compared to natural seawater, but it can suggest it may be worth an experiment to dose them.

Here's what I found for these same elements using Triton:

My Triton Testing Results: By Randy Holmes-Farley - REEFEDITION

Recently, Triton GmbH in Germany has initiated a method of testing many ions at once for a single price. In the US, that service is coordinated by Unique Corals. For $49 they will send you a couple of tubes to collect a tank water sample, and a prepaid mailer to send the sample back to them...

www.reefedition.com

Iron (Fe). The natural iron level varies a lot with depth, but surface seawater may have only 0.006 µg/L. The Triton LOD = 0.3 µg/L. I dose iron, and when I dose it I boost iron to roughly 1-2 µg/L, which would be detectable. This sample was taken more than a week after the last iron dosing, and none was detected as it gets depleted in the meanwhile. I’ve not yet seen a Triton test result for a real aquarium sample that had detectable iron, but that doesn’t mean these tanks are necessarily deficient. Iron is also a case where the form is critical, and ICP cannot distinguish form. Binding to organic matter, for example, can alter the bioavailability of iron.

Cobalt (Co). Cobalt is present in natural seawater at roughly 0.006 µg/L. The Triton LOD = 0.4 µg/L), so having none detected may be fine. We cannot really tell much, unless there is a substantial excess.

Vanadium (V). Triton can just barely detect the natural level of vanadium (1.8 µg/L) since their LOD is 0.9 µg/L. Still, detecting none suggests it may be depleted, and is another possibility for dosing.

Zinc (Zn). The zinc is about spot on, so there’s not much to say about it.

Manganese (Mn). Triton can just barely detect the natural level of manganese (0.17 µg/L) since their LOD is 0.12 µg/L. Detecting none suggests it may be depleted, and is another possibility for dosing, but I have less confidence that this one is really seriously depleted since it is so close to the LOD. But Mn is biologically important and I will consider it.

So I have read this article and is very useful, thank you. Anyway, my zinc level is low and would like to dose zinc from Triton. What would you suggest for a starting point on the amount to dose? I also have the cobalt and it has the dose amount on the bottle. My tank is 75 gals., Like you said it may be worth to experiment with it.

My corals are very colorful but are slow growing, my Duncans have been closed up for over a year and the past month are showing some life, do you believe it. My Duncans are still alive after all this time. Need to go out and run errands, can't wait to here what you have to say.
Anthony

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Dies the Triton zinc product indicate a concentration? Do they recommend a dose based on your specific icp?

 

[gbroadbridge]

So I have read this article and is very useful, thank you. Anyway, my zinc level is low and would like to dose zinc from Triton. What would you suggest for a starting point on the amount to dose? I also have the cobalt and it has the dose amount on the bottle. My tank is 75 gals., Like you said it may be worth to experiment with it.

My corals are very colorful but are slow growing, my Duncans have been closed up for over a year and the past month are showing some life, do you believe it. My Duncans are still alive after all this time. Need to go out and run errands, can't wait to here what you have to say.
Anthony

I'd dose what Triton suggest under the dosing tab on the report.
That should be pretty safe.

AFAIK Triton do not publish the concentration of their products, however you could probably calculate it based on their recommended dose for your size tank and their analysis.

That's if you wish to DIY a dosing solution or use an alternative product.

 

[anthonygf]

Dies the Triton zinc product indicate a concentration? Do they recommend a dose based on your specific icp?

No, I did not use Triton for testing. Also no info on product. I tried to find the info on triton website but no luck. I will try to contact triton. I did look at someone's test results from triton and also shows zinc 0.00 ug/l and in the green. Thanks Randy.

 

[anthonygf]

I'd dose what Triton suggest under the dosing tab on the report.
That should be pretty safe.

AFAIK Triton do not publish the concentration of their products, however you could probably calculate it based on their recommended dose for your size tank and their analysis.

That's if you wish to DIY a dosing solution or use an alternative product.

I dose everything by hand, have no dosers. I don't see a dosing tab but a calculators tab and that is for a mixed solution. I have a cobalt from another company and the dose is 1ml per 27 gals. I just need the same info for the zinc and cannot seem to find it. Thank you gbroadbridge!

 

[MnFish1]

I would suggest you buy a different zinc product if you can - OR - send a Triton ICP test. The problem is there is so much potential variability between ICP tests - even if you had a triton report from someone else - it would be difficult to extrapolate the triton zinc level/dose - to what your test level shows. Hope this makes sense.

PS - I also looked at multiple websites to try to get the dosage without any luck.