ICP. Ho.. Huh, What is it goo-ood for? Absolutely….

ReefRxSWFL

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I did some ICP testing for the sole purpose of checking for things like Al from the bio-bricks, or possibly metals I didnt want in there, not for the nonsense in the results, like “you need vanadium”. But what i did get is confirmation how useless they actually are.

It would be important to get confirmation that the hobby grade kits you use keep you in the ballpark, so, of course, dKh, Ca, Mg, Nitrate, phosphate, maybe iodine, manganese, iron, potassium……

So after that first round, i decided to send that lab 3 tests, but from the same tank, at the same exact time and labeled as 3 different tanks. The results should have been the same, or at least similar, right?

So, i ordered 3 tests from another, did the same thing, and again…. Results should have been the same? Similar?

yeah, both answers are no. How are they getting away with this?

do they have Phd Chemists operating the machine, or just some dude with a liberal arts degree and has a fish tank and started a YouTube channel?

now, i do have experience using a mass-spec, and when I used on samples, the same sample when rechecked, had the same exact results.

Im sure someone is going to say how well ICP does for them, but for me, Shenanigans confirmed.
 

jda

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ICP is a joke to me too, but I pretty much stopped posting about like since people seem to like it less than my takes that BRS are not scientists and not objective.

Even if they were accurate, the list of things that they do not test for is too large for the cost. The big things can just get by with a salifert kit, which is good enough.

For the normal person, they just raise too many false issues like tin or something that does not matter. They are like confirmation for people looking for anything to latch onto which distracts from any real issues.
 

rtparty

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There is a great article on this exact topic already...it is worth the read

Also, if you used ICP Analysis for any of these tests, your results should be thrown out as it is already known they are inaccurate
 

jda

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I don't care if people want to spend money on ICP, but I would not use them as an absolute way to check things to know which supplements to add... just too inaccurate. My normal advice is to spend that $60-75 on salt from a reliable company and use water changes to reset your parameters.

@rtparty, could you link that article? I am not lazy and can search, but I am not finding it... just the threads on here from the members.
 

Lavey29

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Works fine for me every 4 months but I would prefer to have a way of validating their findings but I also don't know if the McDonald's kid dropped my burger on the ground before serving it to me either.
 

rtparty

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I don't care if people want to spend money on ICP, but I would not use them as an absolute way to check things to know which supplements to add... just too inaccurate. My normal advice is to spend that $60-75 on salt from a reliable company and use water changes to reset your parameters.

@rtparty, could you link that article? I am not lazy and can search, but I am not finding it... just the threads on here from the members.



I can say for myself, ICP testing has been amazing but I understand their limitations and don't make any knee jerk reactions with them. Water changes are not for me and I will quit the hobby before I go back to them as a routine thing. Especially when it takes 30 gallons for a 10% water change now. I have no easy way of accomplishing this. That 10% doesn't do nearly what people think anyway. The math doesn't lie here
 

JCM

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ICP is a joke to me too, but I pretty much stopped posting about like since people seem to like it less than my takes that BRS are not scientists and not objective.

Even if they were accurate, the list of things that they do not test for is too large for the cost. The big things can just get by with a salifert kit, which is good enough.

For the normal person, they just raise too many false issues like tin or something that does not matter. They are like confirmation for people looking for anything to latch onto which distracts from any real issues.

Are you trying to tell me that a company who's sole purpose is selling me stuff may not be completely unbiased in the information they convey?

Sounds like nonsense to me...
 

lefkonj

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Had a fine experience with them, just not the 'Amazing solve' people pretend it is.
 

X-37B

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I have read up on the Moonshiner process. They rely on icp test to maintain their systems with no water changes. How are they successful at the adds they do if the tests are not accurate?
They use icp to add many different elements.
If icp is that inaccurate then how are they getting the results they attribute to their method?
Just wondering as I do not run their method.
 
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blaxsun

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I have read up on the Moonshiner process. They rely on icp test to maintain their systems with no water changes. How are they successful at the adds they do if the tests are not accurate?
They use icp to add many different elements.
If icp is that inaccurate then how are they getting the results they attribite to their method?
Just wondering as I do not run their method.
Maybe it's not so much that the ICP tests aren't accurate - just that they're not necessarily any more accurate than if you perform a manual test that day. The recent article showed that the longer the sample was in-transit the more the parameters fluctuated over time.
 
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ReefRxSWFL

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Works fine for me every 4 months but I would prefer to have a way of validating their findings but I also don't know if the McDonald's kid dropped my burger on the ground before serving it to me either.
Send 2 from the same tank next time. Label as 2 different tanks, and see what you get back. Thats the only way to say if it works for you.

with hobby tests, if you get a result that doesnt seem right, do you check again? Probably.

if you do a hobby test and get a result you expect, do you recheck? Both initilal tests have the potential to be good or wrong. How do you know if you don't double check?
 
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ReefRxSWFL

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Had a fine experience with them, just not the 'Amazing solve' people pretend it is.
How do you know it was fine ? I sent 3 samples from the same tank to two different ICP providers, and none of them matched. And I sent them in the same box at the same time?

How were you able to confirm your results were accurate vs random numbers on a spreadsheet?
 
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ReefRxSWFL

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I have read up on the Moonshiner process. They rely on icp test to maintain their systems with no water changes. How are they successful at the adds they do if the tests are not accurate?
They use icp to add many different elements.
If icp is that inaccurate then how are they getting the results they attribite to their method?
Just wondering as I do not run their method.

how did I get 3 different results from the same tank, at the same time, shipped in the same box to the tester? Using 2 different testers?

idk what moonshiners do. Sounds like someone else who wants to give their own pet name to chemistry. Moonshiners =chemistry, Triton=chemistry, Zeovit=chemistry.

Ive seen lots of them come and go over the last 20+ years.
 

Lavey29

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Send 2 from the same tank next time. Label as 2 different tanks, and see what you get back. Thats the only way to say if it works for you.

with hobby tests, if you get a result that doesnt seem right, do you check again? Probably.

if you do a hobby test and get a result you expect, do you recheck? Both initilal tests have the potential to be good or wrong. How do you know if you don't double check?
I don't discount what you are saying but I can use my Hanna checkers for everything basically and then use them again 5 minutes later and get slightly different results too. I think these tests just give you a reference point to work with but don't consider them perfectly accurate. Kind of like using a refractometer or digital one. Is is 100% accurate? No way, just ball park accurate. Your tank tells you what it needs.
 

WVNed

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It's kind of funny
I have used Prime, Vibrant, Purple Up and a host of other things in a bottle. They worked.
I used Prime to treat the ammonia levels after my live rock shipped in. Vibrant got rid of some bryopsis for me. The Purple up was long ago and I dont remember. I have used Chemiclean a bunch of times.

And then I come down to is this another random rant on the internet.
My experiences with ICP testing don't agree with yours about that either.

So have fun and I wont waste any more of my time here
 

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