ICP test showed LEAD at 9micrograms/ liter

[aquariusgine]

How bad is that? Is it enough to kill fish/ hurt corals?

 

[Lasse]

Its probably not acute toxic to adult fish in saltwater of around 35 PSU. however - lead is one of the metals that will be bioaccumulated. It can also probably kill sensitive species as marine copepods. You need to find the source. As I know it Finland has not lead in their waterworks (as GB have)

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Were you using 0 ppm tds water for evaporation replacement?

 

[EnterName]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/help-with-math-diy-chaetogro.1160223/#post-14376007
Is it possible you introduced lead when trying to mix your own ChaetoGro?

 

[aquariusgine]

Were you using 0 ppm tds water for evaporation replacement?

My RO water is always 1-2 ppm TDS. Should it be 0?

 

[aquariusgine]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/help-with-math-diy-chaetogro.1160223/#post-14376007
Is it possible you introduced lead when trying to mix your own ChaetoGro?

I haven't done that yet but I have used a pair of very rusty aquarium scissors and a slightly rusty algae scraper with razor quite often.

Also, I forgot to mention, my zinc is 46.6 µg/l. 8 times the recommended amount.

 

[EnterName]

My RO water is always 1-2 ppm TDS. Should it be 0?

0 would be better, but if your house isn't really old and you aren't using some very cheap or also very old brass fittings, I can't really imagine how that much lead would be introduced

Finland was very smart about the whole lead thing as far as I know

I haven't done that yet but I have used a pair of very rusty aquarium scissors and a slightly rusty algae scraper with razor quite often.

Also, I forgot to mention, my Zinc is 46.6 µg/l. 8 times the recommended amount.

High Zinc and Lead concentrations sound like you have metal parts in your tank. I don't think an algae scraper alone would cause this. Are you using metal hose clamps by chance? Have you checked the magnets of your flow pumps? Maybe one of those magnets isn't properly isolated anymore and is rusting away?

 

[Lasse]

Zinc and Lead = brass - look for some details of brass in your water - or near your tank. RO with 1-2 ppm TDS do not indicate that it comes from your tap water. What was your Si concentration?

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Any elevation in copper? Brass has a lot of copper.

 

[EnterName]

Zinc and Lead = brass - look for some details of brass in your water - or near your tank. RO with 1-2 ppm TDS do not indicate that it comes from your tap water. What was your Si concentration?

Sincerely Lasse

Brass fittings for the RO/DI system should be fine, though. The extra filter cartridges I'm using have brass fitting connections and I'm getting the TDS/conductivity down very close to the theoretical limit of pure water with my current setup: 0.035μS/cm (@ 8-15°C). The drinking water restrictions don't allow for much lead in those fittings anymore. But maybe OP uses old fittings?

If however there is brass near the tank it's another story. Zinc also sounds like hose clamps in the water or similar.

Let's hope it's not brass or copper might also be elevated, which corals hate even more than lead.

 

[Lasse]

Brass fittings for the RO/DI system should be fine, though

IMO - it depends on the construction of the fittings and that the water does not come into contact with the brass in any way or place. RO water is much more aggressive in dissolving metal ions than regular drinking water.

if the ions from the fitting is the only source to this "fruit" value of conductivity of 0.035μS/cm it could still be a problem. An ICP-MS test of the RO water could be good.

@aquariusgine To see the whole ICP report may help us understand it

Sincerely Lasse

 

[EnterName]

Brass fittings for the RO/DI system should be fine, though

IMO - it depends on the construction of the fittings and that the water does not come into contact with the brass in any way or place. RO water is much more aggressive in dissolving metal ions than regular drinking water.

if the ions from the fitting is the only source to this "fruit" value of conductivity of 0.035μS/cm it could still be a problem. An ICP-MS test of the RO water could be good.

@aquariusgine To see the whole ICP report may help us understand it

Sincerely Lasse

I had the same concerns but have been using those fittings for years without increasing lead, copper, or zinc in my tank. There definitely is contact between water and brass here. I will replace the inner fittings with PVC to reduce the contact to pretty much zero though. Good point!

That's the great part about participating in Reef2Reef discussions: It let's you rethink stuff you have stopped worrying about, before bad stuff happens. As always, I appreciate your input Lasse! And sorry aquariusgine for hijacking the post, back to your issue:


I would also like to see the ICP results. There is also old plumbing solder that contains zinc and lead, which could be a possible explanation if we don't find any elevated copper levels.

 

[aquariusgine]

I had the same concerns but have been using those fittings for years without increasing lead, copper, or zinc in my tank. There definitely is contact between water and brass here. I will replace the inner fittings with PVC to reduce the contact to pretty much zero though. Good point!

That's the great part about participating in Reef2Reef discussions: It let's you rethink stuff you have stopped worrying about, before bad stuff happens. As always, I appreciate your input Lasse! And sorry aquariusgine for hijacking the post, back to your issue:


I would also like to see the ICP results. There is also old plumbing solder that contains zinc and lead, which could be a possible explanation if we don't find any elevated copper levels.

I do have this in my RO water fitting!

I've attached the ICP test results.

Not detectable: vanadium, chromium, selenium

Very low: iodine, silicon, silicate, nickel

Slightly high: bromine, barium

Very high: zinc, molybdenum, iron (but I want to keep iron at this level as I'm growing macroalgae), cobalt, lead (for some reason the main result page did not list lead or showed the recommended range, I only caught it in the PDF)

 

[EnterName]

Okay...so you have a bunch of elevated elements:

Molybdenum (Mo): 34.2μg/L,
Zinc (Zn): 46.6μg/L,
Iron (Fe): 66μg/L, and
Cobalt (Co): 4.24μg/L.

Copper (Cu): 5.58μg/L is apparently still okay, but at the higher end.

I'm not saying that these are necessarily dangerous levels, but it's noteworthy how high those levels are compared to an average reef tank.

If Brass parts were causing troubles I would have expected more copper, assuming it dissolves as easy as lead, zinc, etc. Due to the high TDS reading you have reported, it might still make sense to check the RO/DI unit again.

ChaetoGrō contains 0.1% Iron, 0.004% Molybdenum, 0.002% Zinc, and 0.0004% Cobalt (amongst other elements), so I would definitely stop dosing for now, or you will further increase those already elevated trace elements.

I would go through all pieces of equipment and piping. Hose clamps, magnets of flow pumps and wavemakers, metal parts like screws in the return pump or skimmer pump, artificially made decoration which isn't really reef-safe, etc.

Maybe Lasse and Randy have more ideas or a better understanding of possible causes, but if I have learned something then it is that double checking never hurts.

 

[aquariusgine]

My setup is quite unconventional.. it’s 3 tanks connected.

It has/ had: one external filter, 3 internal filters. The skimmer and two wavemakers don’t count because I only recently introduced them like a week ago.

Metal tools that have been in the water: RO water tap connector, water pump, rusty scissors, and slightly rusty algae scraper with razor. 4 magnet algae scrapers.

 

[ReneReef]

Based on the combination of metals I would first look into broken pump housings. Second: heaters.

 

[Lasse]

Okay...so you have a bunch of elevated elements:

Molybdenum (Mo): 34.2μg/L,
Zinc (Zn): 46.6μg/L,
Iron (Fe): 66μg/L, and
Cobalt (Co): 4.24μg/L.

Copper (Cu): 5.58μg/L is apparently still okay, but at the higher end.

I'm not saying that these are necessarily dangerous levels, but it's noteworthy how high those levels are compared to an average reef tank.

If Brass parts were causing troubles I would have expected more copper, assuming it dissolves as easy as lead, zinc, etc. Due to the high TDS reading you have reported, it might still make sense to check the RO/DI unit again.

ChaetoGrō contains 0.1% Iron, 0.004% Molybdenum, 0.002% Zinc, and 0.0004% Cobalt (amongst other elements), so I would definitely stop dosing for now, or you will further increase those already elevated trace elements.

I would go through all pieces of equipment and piping. Hose clamps, magnets of flow pumps and wavemakers, metal parts like screws in the return pump or skimmer pump, artificially made decoration which isn't really reef-safe, etc.

Maybe Lasse and Randy have more ideas or a better understanding of possible causes, but if I have learned something then it is that double checking never hurts.

IMO - your elevated concentrations of Molybdenum (Mo),Zinc (Zn), Iron (Fe),Copper (Cu) and Cobalt (Co) can all be explained by your use of ChaetoGro

However your concentrations of lead is still a problem to figure out. I did a conclusion that lead was not historical used in water pipes in Finland because its seldom the case in Sweden. It seems - however - that´s more common in Finland.

I tried introducing clownfish twice but they kept dying in 24-48hours. I suspect acclimation shock since I only dripped them 30minutes each.

Where in Finland do you live - if your fishes was delivered with more than 24 hours in the plastic bag - its the dripp itself that killed them not the short time. In that case - you should not have acclimated them - bags in the aquarium unopen for around 30 - 60 minutes - temperature acclimation - afterwards - fish in direct. Even if you have a short transport - it was not IMO the short acclimatation that killed them. I never acclimate my fish to my water. Temp - accl - fish in.

I would send in an ICP-MS analyse to OCEAMO (its include a detailed RO analyse too). I would also do an total ammonia test of the water with a cheap test - type API - just in case - no labs analyze ammonia.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[aquariusgine]

IMO - your elevated concentrations of Molybdenum (Mo),Zinc (Zn), Iron (Fe),Copper (Cu) and Cobalt (Co) can all be explained by your use of ChaetoGro

However your concentrations of lead is still a problem to figure out. I did a conclusion that lead was not historical used in water pipes in Finland because its seldom the case in Sweden. It seems - however - that´s more common in Finland.


Where in Finland do you live - if your fishes was delivered with more than 24 hours in the plastic bag - its the dripp itself that killed them not the short time. In that case - you should not have acclimated them - bags in the aquarium unopen for around 30 - 60 minutes - temperature acclimation - afterwards - fish in direct. Even if you have a short transport - it was not IMO the short acclimatation that killed them. I never acclimate my fish to my water. Temp - accl - fish in.

I would send in an ICP-MS analyse to OCEAMO (its include a detailed RO analyse too). I would also do an total ammonia test of the water with a cheap test - type API - just in case - no labs analyze ammonia.

Sincerely Lasse

Yeah the ChaetoGro elements can be controlled with more frequent water changes so I’m not too concerned about them.

I live in Espoo/ Helsinki area and the fish shop is only 20minutes away.

I’ll get another ICP test + RO water one.

 

[Lasse]

Yeah the ChaetoGro elements can be controlled with more frequent water changes so I’m not too concerned about them.

I live in Espoo/ Helsinki area and the fish shop is only 20minutes away.

I’ll get another ICP test + RO water one.

If you should put money in a new test - try to do a ICP-MS test - its more accurate - please read here. Its more expensive but in this case - it may be the best. There is more vendors in Europe that offer ICP-MS than Oceamo

Sincerely Lasse