If we think equipment prices are high . .. . . . .

[Reefer Matt]

What do you think will happen to pricing. How far will it go in your opinion?

I think it will depend on what consumers are willing to spend. The manufacturers have great marketing through social media. I never see an Ecotech commercial on regular tv for example, but many instagram and youtubers have sponsorships with them. This creates an illusion that success can only happen with their products, imo. It would be nice to see a manufacturer make less expensive tiers of their products.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

What do you think will happen to pricing. How far will it go in your opinion?

This is so difficult. We’re beyond supply and demand economics. There’s so many variables to account for. Wages…if I have to pay my previously minimum wage positions twenty bucks or more an hour just to stay staffed…boy does that tick off those already being paid twenty so they need to be bumped up or they’ll walk…then there’s that are being paid fifty and they’re ticked off…. You get the picture. Material costs are nuts, shipping…. Nuts. Supply chain issues…. Crazy. Work ethics…. Don’t bother me I’m tik tocking, has anyone seen Bobby today? No phone call, no notice, just decided working isn’t his jam anymore. It’s like the perfect storm of business madness

 

[ReefGeezer]

I bought one of the the first 10K halide fixtures that used a double ended bulb in the mid 90's. I don't remember the price and can't remember the manufacture's exact name. It was German, I think... Aqualine something or other. I do remember thinking how expensive it was even though I bought it wholesale. I also remember being amazed by the quality of the fixture as compared to the Coralife lamp shade shaped fixtures I had been using. I used that fixture for years and only parted with it because it sold as part of the fixtures when I sold my LFS.

When getting back into the hobby, I forgot the lesson that high quality fixture taught me. I tried to reef on the cheap using less expensive and even DIY equipment. It never failed that the money I spent was wasted as I ended up replacing it with higher quality, and more expensive equipment. I have learned my lesson. I use quality equipment and pay the price.

That doesn't mean I'm happy about the current business model that is driving up prices. However, I guess you have to pay to play. I do still take one money saving step... buying used. Much of the equipment in my tank was purchased used... An 8X54w ATI Sunpower, MP40's and FX350s... and the entire calcium reactor system that now sits dry in the storage room. All found in R2R's marketplace.

 

[MrWellington]

This hobby is no different then any other equipment intensive hobby.

You CAN do it on the cheap. Just dont expect the same results, or pleasure. The joy of owning quality lasts far longer then the joy of “saving money”. Something I have never been able to convince buyers of “Harbor Freight”.

 

[Hooz]

My frustration is that the big name companies aren't even really driving innovation any more, but they're still demanding premium prices like they are.

Some of the biggest recent advancements in LED lighting for reef tanks (spectrum-wise) have come from a handful of hobbyists who were just making something that they wanted that nobody else was making. Then they realized that others might be interested too.

Really, other than the MPxx line (that actually have patents), what reason is there to justify some of the prices on wavemakers these days?! The app? News flash... The Chinese are getting better at that too.

If you don't get all caught up in brand names and "status", there are quite a few nice, reliable, affordable options out there. I find myself with more and more Jebao pumps and powerheads these days, and all my lights are "old tech" AI Prime HDs and Hydra 26HDs, upgraded with some of the best "new tech" in Luxdium LED upgrades.

I think that the hobby really only needs to be as expensive as YOU make it. There are affordable alternatives out there if you look.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

Still curious on everyone's thoughts:

What does everyone believe will be the costs of essential items such as lighting , water flow, sumps, tanks, skimmers and such?
Do you also see our equipment going completely WiFi ?

R.E.E.F.S=ridiculously expensive even for small-scale

once every "essential" piece of equipment is around 1,000.00 $ and a 100.00$ for everything else. I think "THEY" will be happy. of course it's all going WiFi that way you don't have full control

 

[pepper89]

That's why I got pretty much all of my stuff used. If you're patient you can pick up nice stuff for a song on fb marketplace. Except heaters. Don't even trust brand new heaters. Use them with an inkbird and replace em every year. They're relatively cheap and the number 1 cause of a tank crash.

I have saved quite a bit of money buying what I could use, researching, or waiting for sales to get the big purchases. IDK how many times things I was eyeing ended up on sale for something like fathers day or used at my local LFS/FB marketplace, and I'm so glad I didn't buy it outright. I think the biggest one was just basic patience. Had I given in to my initial desire almost a year ago to just have a system up and running immediately, I think I would be a couple thousand more into this hobby and probably a TON more stress. Plus, this way I was able to learn things along the way when I'm just messing around, like the heaters tidbit, before I'm $1000s+ dollars in with corals and fish.

 

[ninjamyst]

Like all hobbies, there are cheap ways to do things and there are expensive ways. It's up to you as the consumer to make the decision that fits your budget.

No one is forcing you to buy Radions or Nyos or Ecotech or Reef Octopus. So many more affordable alternatives.

Examples:
- Radion lights --> Nicrew or Smatfarm or Reef breeders
- Reef Octopus skimmer --> Aquamaxx
- Ecotech wavemakers --> Jebao

Reefing is as expensive as you make it.

 

[MexiReefer]

Many of us especially very long timers have seen pricing evolve from very affordable to exorbitant. We old timers have seen Metal Halides, the evolution of LED starting with Marineland LED at affordable costs to now $600-$900 lights. This is one component of the cost of Reefing. We now see Algae scrubbers at $600, Skimmers at $500-800 and Sumps at $500-$700

What does everyone believe will be the costs of essential items such as lighting , water flow, sumps, tanks, skimmers and such?
Do you also see our equipment going completely WiFi ?

I have near $5000 in Orpheks and there is no way if I go to sell them used that I will recover half of that, making it a high depreciation item? Our equipment investments may not be investments Afterall.

In general terms, nothing related to consumer goods should be considered as an investment.

 

[ninjamyst]

Often called Buy it once, Ive seen too many buy a $50 china light and had issues, was unable to get parts or support, then got irate and bought a kessil or Ai Prime. Would have been best to buy the kessil or prime up front

I've seen too many buy a $50 china light and have amazing budget reefs that rival the expensive fancy ones.

I've seen too many buy a $1000 Neptune Sky and had issues and corals keep dying.

Anecdotal evidence is pointless....

 

[Fishy888]

This hobby is no different then any other equipment intensive hobby.

You CAN do it on the cheap. Just dont expect the same results, or pleasure. The joy of owning quality lasts far longer then the joy of “saving money”. Something I have never been able to convince buyers of “Harbor Freight”.

If you have the ability to DIY you most certainly can have quality AND save money at the same time. It’s about knowing WHERE you can save said money.

 

[Crustaceon]

I think they'll keep going up in price because we keep buying that stuff at that price. We're getting ripped off. Take for example a "120w" equivalent 5k cree led spotlight bulb from Home Depot. That'll run you $12? Now if a company went to the same manufacturer and had them install a 420nm led instead, they'd NO DOUBT sell that bulb for over $100 even though it didn't cost a cent more to make.

 

[kwirky]

Like all hobbies, there are cheap ways to do things and there are expensive ways. It's up to you as the consumer to make the decision that fits your budget.

No one is forcing you to buy Radions or Nyos or Ecotech or Reef Octopus. So many more affordable alternatives.

Examples:
- Radion lights --> Nicrew or Smatfarm or Reef breeders
- Reef Octopus skimmer --> Aquamaxx
- Ecotech wavemakers --> Jebao

Reefing is as expensive as you make it.

I can get into the details but I would argue that most of those units you've mentioned as "affordable alternatives" are actually better than the expensive alternatives. You can't discount simplicity in a long term system in operation.

It should also be mentioned that now that live rock is difficult to source and it's ethics is questionable, a system started from dry rock is very different from one started with live rock. You have different problems to solve without that initial seeding of fauna and being able to tune for that with one's equipment is a great help.

 

[LPS Bum]

Still curious on everyone's thoughts:

What does everyone believe will be the costs of essential items such as lighting , water flow, sumps, tanks, skimmers and such?
Do you also see our equipment going completely WiFi ?

At some point the continued increase in equipment pricing year over year will have to slow down. Otherwise the hobby will contract.

Manufacturers will continue to squeeze as much revenue as possible out of a light or pump, but eventually we’ll hit an inflection point where people just won’t buy the products. Heck, we might already be approaching that limit.

 

[EugeneVan]

I’ve never heard anyone call a money pit an investment! I commented somewhere the other day about looking for a new toothbrush the other day. First one online was six hundred bucks! For a toothbrush! Oh, but it has an app so it must be worth it. Things are crazy everywhere

Soon we can purchase toilets with WIFI connection and run on app....just like everything else

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

At some point the continued increase in equipment pricing year over year will have to slow down. Otherwise the hobby will contract.

Manufacturers will continue to squeeze as much revenue as possible out of a light or pump, but eventually we’ll hit an inflection point where people just won’t buy the products. Heck, we might already be approaching that limit.

Yeah, I imagine a sign of this would be if a ginormous vendor had fifteen to twenty percent off sales everyday for the past two weeks plus the touted biggest customer appreciation event ever and it’s not even a holiday yet…..oh wait a sec

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

Soon we can purchase toilets with WIFI connection and run on app....just like everything else

You’re too late. Smart toilets have been out for a couple years now…..seriously

https://www.kohler.com/en/products/smart-home?id=ps_goo_kbus_dtc_2023_628654926363_f03&gclid=Cj0KCQjwtO-kBhDIARIsAL6LoreNjgyewhksshIU0wrWB8Ys_aWnkCvv8YhvLZo5_yeiVlcsSYENOBYaAhelEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[EugeneVan]

You’re too late. Smart toilets have been out for a couple years now…..seriously

https://www.kohler.com/en/products/smart-home?id=ps_goo_kbus_dtc_2023_628654926363_f03&gclid=Cj0KCQjwtO-kBhDIARIsAL6LoreNjgyewhksshIU0wrWB8Ys_aWnkCvv8YhvLZo5_yeiVlcsSYENOBYaAhelEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

OMG, let me dig into it

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

OMG, let me dig into it

It’s only like nine grand…..but it has an app so it’s worth it

 

[vetteguy53081]

OMG, let me dig into it

Theyre called smart toilets