I'm done w/Tangs....

[amcvay]

So to start this off, I've had 4 reef systems up and running multiple years. I've always had tangs, they're some of my favorite fish bar none, but for some reason, my newest tank just can't support them. It seem very odd to me that I've never had issues w/Tangs in the past but after 2020 and the pandemic and fish suppliers stocks going non-existent, I can't help but wonder if something has changed in the supply chain to add stress to the fish.

My current reef tank is a 5 feet long 150 gallon acrylic. It's been up since March 2020, my water params are as follows;

Salt: 35ppt
Temp: 77-78 - controlled by BRS Controller
ALk - 8.5-9 dose kalk by ATO
Ph 8.1 to 8.17
Calcium - 450ppm
Nitrate - 3 ppm
Phos - .12

I keep mostly SPS frags and several colonies, lots of euphyllia, lots of zoa's and some monti frags. My water movement is very random and strong. I have 3 mp40's on reef crest 70-80% and a small gyre pump on high 24/7. I feed very heavily, frozen foods every day. Mostly Rod's, Reef Riot or Reef Frenzy with some added cyclops or zooplankton for the anthias.

My fish I started with and still have are;

4 chroms, 4 clowns (2 designer percs and 2 clarkiis), a rusty angel, 3 wrasses (6 line, leopard, red flasher), sand sifting goby, hawkfish, lyretail anthia, rabbit fish....

I had a fat and happy yellow tang that was added very early in the tank. I assumed he was the culprit to all the stress when adding any other tang to the tank so I traded him to my LFS. Since then, I've lost every tang I've tried with the exception of a sailfin.

I most recently purchased 3 tangs and added them at the same time. The Sailfin, a bluespot bristletooth and a powder brown. All were swimming happily at the LFS, all fat and large and eating mysis when I asked to have them fed. When I added them to my tank after a 30 min bath in 20ml per gallon of 3% hydrogen peroxide, all three did well the first few days. Then slowly I didn't see the Powder Brown or Bluespot. Just the sailfin. The other 2 would hide all day, or make brief appearances, looked stressed out and then ran and hid. No eating, and of course covered in white bumps. My previous experience w/Tangs has always been they will get stressed and/or tussle with other tangs in the tank, establish dominance and eventually come to terms and start swimming together and eating nori I offer daily, plus the frozen foods. But in this tank, 1 tang always does well, and the rest starve and die. I've tried multiple times, I select fish that look very healthy, see them eat, etc...but they eventually all succumb to stress and stop eating.

Last week I saw a big fat healthy looking Blue Spot so against my better judgement I bought it. I told myself I'll add him in an acclimation box for a few days to observe. If he gets stressed I can pull him out, move him to a tank by himself and all should be fine. 3 days into the acclimation box, he's eating everything I offer him, swimming around trying to get out and join the rest of the fish in the tank, the sailfin and rabbit fish are around him all the time, they're not trying to attack, just curious. The blue spot isn't stressed, not a spot on him, so I let him join the rest of the fish after 4 days in the box. Within 1 hour, he was being bullied by the sailfin, had some quick swims in circles w/the rabbit fish and was covered in white bumps...the next morning he's dead. I just can't do this w/Tangs anymore. This tank doesn't seem to support more than 1, even with plenty of hiding spaces in the rocks, plenty of other peaceful tank mates....I just can't believe this keeps happening. And on top of it all, I let a nice big Yellow Tang go to the LFS and they're of course with big money now.

Anyone else experience this? I've had a 4 foot 150 in the past with 5 tangs that got along fine, weren't added at the same time, were all different colors/genus and I've always had good luck doing this...until this tank?

 

[LDog74]

I purchased my 3 tangs from TSM. Gem, Powder Blue & whitetail BT. Then put them through a 3 week QT (monitor only) as added caution.
Added them all at the same time & everyone is happy a year later.
It sounds like your tank has ich now so unless you go fallow for 60 days I would stay away from them unfortunately.

 

[Tamberav]

I just bought some Tangs and put them through QT and said to myself... man it is nice to have some easy keepers for once!!! My last fish through QT was copperband butterfly and leopard wrasses.

Seems to me you have disease in your DT and the new fish get bullied and break out and die. The disease forums are riddled with it. This is why many advocate QT.

If you don't want to pull all the fish, you could try adding a very large oversized $$$ UV. I have also seen peroxide dosing in the DT as well.

 

[laverda]

I think you were very lucky having 5 tangs in a 150 in the past. It is too small fir a large sailfin tang. You did not say how large but they do get to be 14". That said I doubt that is what cause there deaths.
I have only read the threads on using hydrogen peroxide to treat fish. I believe the recommended dosage is only 5ml per gallon. Tangs have fairly sensitive gills. The H2O2 may be burning their gills. I think the fact they are dieing so quickly points to things beside harassment or stress.
I would ask this question in the disease forum.

 

[laverda]

I purchased my 3 tangs from TSM. Gem, Powder Blue & whitetail BT. Then put them through a 3 week QT (monitor only) as added caution.
Added them all at the same time & everyone is happy a year later.
It sounds like your tank has ich now so unless you go fallow for 60 days I would stay away from them unfortunately.

ICH does not usually kill fish in one day.

 

[Rubberfrog]

Sounds like the sailfin is the common denominator.

 

[amcvay]

Sounds like the sailfin is the common denominator.

Sailfin has only been in the tank for about a month

 

[amcvay]

I purchased my 3 tangs from TSM. Gem, Powder Blue & whitetail BT. Then put them through a 3 week QT (monitor only) as added caution.
Added them all at the same time & everyone is happy a year later.
It sounds like your tank has ich now so unless you go fallow for 60 days I would stay away from them unfortunately.

But literally no other fish have ever shown signs of ich, just the tangs that are new that ultimately die of starvation/bullying

 

[amcvay]

I think you were very lucky having 5 tangs in a 150 in the past. It is too small fir a large sailfin tang. You did not say how large but they do get to be 14". That said I doubt that is what cause there deaths.
I have only read the threads on using hydrogen peroxide to treat fish. I believe the recommended dosage is only 5ml per gallon. Tangs have fairly sensitive gills. The H2O2 may be burning their gills. I think the fact they are dieing so quickly points to things beside harassment or stress.
I would ask this question in the disease forum.

 

[amcvay]

sailfin is new, my previous tangs were yellow, lavender, bristletooth, powder blue. Never anything over 5-6 inches

 

[laverda]

But literally no other fish have ever shown signs of ich, just the tangs that are new that ultimately die of starvation/bullying

 

[amcvay]

I just bought some Tangs and put them through QT and said to myself... man it is nice to have some easy keepers for once!!! My last fish through QT was copperband butterfly and leopard wrasses.

Seems to me you have disease in your DT and the new fish get bullied and break out and die. The disease forums are riddled with it. This is why many advocate QT.

If you don't want to pull all the fish, you could try adding a very large oversized $$$ UV. I have also seen peroxide dosing in the DT as well.

I actually do run a large UV sterilizer and have since the beginning of the tank for a little insurance. I’ve really not lost any fish in this tank except for tangs being bullied and not eating

 

[LDog74]

ICH does not usually kill fish in one day.

Yes could be velvet... Either the tank should go fallow now before new additions

 

[amcvay]

Yes could be velvet... Either the tank should go fallow now before new additions

How could velvet selectively decide to kill only the tangs though and not the other fish in the tank? And only the new tangs?

 

[Fishyfish22]

But literally no other fish have ever shown signs of ich, just the tangs that are new that ultimately die of starvation/bullying

Ich is in your tank even if fish aren't currently showing symptoms. Its a parasite, constantly breeding on fish and laying ehhs. So it's in your tank, the only way to get rid of it is going fallow or nuking the tank with bleach/copper. You have coral, so that probably means you won't want to nuke the tank.

The alternative is velvet.

I'm not sure if velvet can do that as well or not; living on the fish but not killing anything. If it can it's possible that the new fish get stressed, and then the weaker immune system resulting from the stress causes ich/velvet to take advantage and ultimately kill them.

 

[What ever]

So to start this off, I've had 4 reef systems up and running multiple years. I've always had tangs, they're some of my favorite fish bar none, but for some reason, my newest tank just can't support them. It seem very odd to me that I've never had issues w/Tangs in the past but after 2020 and the pandemic and fish suppliers stocks going non-existent, I can't help but wonder if something has changed in the supply chain to add stress to the fish.

My current reef tank is a 5 feet long 150 gallon acrylic. It's been up since March 2020, my water params are as follows;

Salt: 35ppt
Temp: 77-78 - controlled by BRS Controller
ALk - 8.5-9 dose kalk by ATO
Ph 8.1 to 8.17
Calcium - 450ppm
Nitrate - 3 ppm
Phos - .12

I keep mostly SPS frags and several colonies, lots of euphyllia, lots of zoa's and some monti frags. My water movement is very random and strong. I have 3 mp40's on reef crest 70-80% and a small gyre pump on high 24/7. I feed very heavily, frozen foods every day. Mostly Rod's, Reef Riot or Reef Frenzy with some added cyclops or zooplankton for the anthias.

My fish I started with and still have are;

4 chroms, 4 clowns (2 designer percs and 2 clarkiis), a rusty angel, 3 wrasses (6 line, leopard, red flasher), sand sifting goby, hawkfish, lyretail anthia, rabbit fish....

I had a fat and happy yellow tang that was added very early in the tank. I assumed he was the culprit to all the stress when adding any other tang to the tank so I traded him to my LFS. Since then, I've lost every tang I've tried with the exception of a sailfin.

I most recently purchased 3 tangs and added them at the same time. The Sailfin, a bluespot bristletooth and a powder brown. All were swimming happily at the LFS, all fat and large and eating mysis when I asked to have them fed. When I added them to my tank after a 30 min bath in 20ml per gallon of 3% hydrogen peroxide, all three did well the first few days. Then slowly I didn't see the Powder Brown or Bluespot. Just the sailfin. The other 2 would hide all day, or make brief appearances, looked stressed out and then ran and hid. No eating, and of course covered in white bumps. My previous experience w/Tangs has always been they will get stressed and/or tussle with other tangs in the tank, establish dominance and eventually come to terms and start swimming together and eating nori I offer daily, plus the frozen foods. But in this tank, 1 tang always does well, and the rest starve and die. I've tried multiple times, I select fish that look very healthy, see them eat, etc...but they eventually all succumb to stress and stop eating.

Last week I saw a big fat healthy looking Blue Spot so against my better judgement I bought it. I told myself I'll add him in an acclimation box for a few days to observe. If he gets stressed I can pull him out, move him to a tank by himself and all should be fine. 3 days into the acclimation box, he's eating everything I offer him, swimming around trying to get out and join the rest of the fish in the tank, the sailfin and rabbit fish are around him all the time, they're not trying to attack, just curious. The blue spot isn't stressed, not a spot on him, so I let him join the rest of the fish after 4 days in the box. Within 1 hour, he was being bullied by the sailfin, had some quick swims in circles w/the rabbit fish and was covered in white bumps...the next morning he's dead. I just can't do this w/Tangs anymore. This tank doesn't seem to support more than 1, even with plenty of hiding spaces in the rocks, plenty of other peaceful tank mates....I just can't believe this keeps happening. And on top of it all, I let a nice big Yellow Tang go to the LFS and they're of course with big money now.

Anyone else experience this? I've had a 4 foot 150 in the past with 5 tangs that got along fine, weren't added at the same time, were all different colors/genus and I've always had good luck doing this...until this tank?

Hello and sorry to hear about your Tang issues, first off it can't be the tank, its plenty big enough so what else is it, it must be the Sailfin. That's just my guess, I'm not sure what you should do, sounds like you're doing everything right.

 

[Tamberav]

Covered in spots and hiding from light seems velvet like to me. Maybe the UV is helping keep the load low enough for the resident fish who have some resistance (and also established). The the new fish come in... with less resistance... stressed from being picked on by new fish and a new tank.... bam. They succumb.

Sailfins are pretty hardy compared to some of the Acanthurus you have listed.

The fish are doing fine before you purchase them (possibly in low level copper) and not in your tank. The issue seems to be the parasites in your tank.

 

[What ever]

Ich is in your tank if fish aren't currently showing symptoms. Its a parasite, constantly breeding on fish and laying ehhs. So it's in your tank, the only way to get rid of it is going fallow or nuking the tank with bleach/copper. You have coral, so that probably means you won't want to nuke the tank.

The alternative is velvet.

I'm not sure if velvet can do that as well or not; living on the fish but not killing anything. If it can it's possible that the new fish get stressed, and then the weaker immune system resulting from the stress causes ich/velvet to take advantage and ultimately kill them.

I never thought about that, a parasite, wow. That's a tough one.

 

[amcvay]

Ich is in your tank if fish aren't currently showing symptoms. Its a parasite, constantly breeding on fish and laying ehhs. So it's in your tank, the only way to get rid of it is going fallow or nuking the tank with bleach/copper. You have coral, so that probably means you won't want to nuke the tank.

The alternative is velvet.

I'm not sure if velvet can do that as well or not; living on the fish but not killing anything. If it can it's possible that the new fish get stressed, and then the weaker immune system resulting from the stress causes ich/velvet to take advantage and ultimately kill them.

I’m 100% in agreement there’s parasites in my system. I’d say nearly all systems have some form or another of a parasite as it’s nearly impossible to Jew them out of a tank unless you QT 100% of everything wet and I don’t see how it’s possible to QT shrimp, corals, crabs, snails, feather worms etc...but I know I can add new, health fish other than tangs to this tank and they’ll be fine. As soon as I add a tang though they stop eating, show signs of stress and ultimately die. If my system were so overrun with parasites all my fish would be dead within days and I’m going on almost a year with most of my other fish. It just doesn’t make any sense.

 

[Fishyfish22]

I’m 100% in agreement there’s parasites in my system. I’d say nearly all systems have some form or another of a parasite as it’s nearly impossible to Jew them out of a tank unless you QT 100% of everything wet and I don’t see how it’s possible to QT shrimp, corals, crabs, snails, feather worms etc...but I know I can add new, health fish other than tangs to this tank and they’ll be fine. As soon as I add a tang though they stop eating, show signs of stress and ultimately die. If my system were so overrun with parasites all my fish would be dead within days and I’m going on almost a year with most of my other fish. It just doesn’t make any sense.

Ok, what other new fish have you added other than the tangs that perished?