IM vs Waterbox vs Cade vs Mariner

[T-winReef]

How about the UNS R series?

 

[DrV4n]

Here is the WB 110.4 layout from above angle

 

[Dustin07]

so the website says its setup to accept a roller, but it looks really tight in that chamber. I'm wondering if I'll be able to use my reefmat 500 in here looks great otherwise. could easily fit my skimmer and reactor in the middle chamber, I'll just need to move away from current gravity fed ATO to an electronic one.

 

[Dustin07]

Found a little sump modification video to fit the reefmat here. I clipped the moment he puts it in. sump looks a little cramped... hmm.

 

[BryanM]

Found a little sump modification video to fit the reefmat here. I clipped the moment he puts it in. sump looks a little cramped... hmm.

This is one of the main reasons I switched to an ATS. Too many things, not enough space.

we'll see in 6 months how I like it.

 

[Dustin07]

This is one of the main reasons I switched to an ATS. Too many things, not enough space.

we'll see in 6 months how I like it.

makes sense, looks like he sacrificed ATO with this setup to put the skimmer where ATO used to be.
I'm contemplating the idea of a matching smaller Waterbox cabinet right next to this tank, that I could use for supplies and perhaps a remote ATO + dosing setup that's very close, but hidden and clean...

 

[BryanM]

yeah, so much equipment, even with the 6foot wide tank/stand, it is cramped.

Hell, my two dosers are mounted to the wall behind, thru the openings in the stand... COuldn't figure out where else to put them.

My external ATO on the previous tank was *NOT* wife approved.

 

[DrkNMighty]

I have a Cade 1200. I will post some pics of the sump and stand layout shortly.

 

[DrkNMighty]

 

[Dustin07]

yeah, so much equipment, even with the 6foot wide tank/stand, it is cramped.

Hell, my two dosers are mounted to the wall behind, thru the openings in the stand... COuldn't figure out where else to put them.

My external ATO on the previous tank was *NOT* wife approved.

This cracked me up cause I just emailed my wife the other cabinets, namely the 18x18 that waterbox sells as well and asked if she could see it next to the big tank so that I could utilize it for storage and maybe remote ATO. We had talked about stacking our 4g nano next to the 425 previously so this might be the wife approved solution if I'm lucky! Lol

Tight but effective! Love your control center.

I keep forgetting that I could run a refugium setup with light instead of the separate tunze macro reactor I have if push came to shove to get that extra chaeto love in my water quality.

 

[DrkNMighty]

Tight but effective! Love your control center.

I keep forgetting that I could run a refugium setup with light instead of the separate tunze macro reactor I have if push came to shove to get that extra chaeto love in my water quality.

Yeah the sump is a little tight but that’s because we opted to use the refugium. That section can actually be removed to give the main chamber a little more space.

 

[Liquid361]

I've been around here a while but never post. Historically I was a RC poster, but I have a conundrum I need to pitch to a larger group. My RedSea 425XL sprung a leak about 10 days ago while I was on day 2 of an 11 day trip to costa rica, so nothing I could do, ended up being about a 95% loss of everything. my house sitters were able to get some of my prized fish to the LFS who kept them safe for me.

We are looking to replace it, most likely with any brand other than RedSea. below are my finalists and I'm wondering if anyone has a reason why they would pick one over the other. IM is currently my winner (Looking at the INT 100 system) but the thing I dislike about it, is the sump. My 425xl for all of its bad, had a lot of extra cabinet/storage space down below even with the sump installed with a skimmer, reactor, reefmat, and return pump.

1. IM
2. Waterbox
3. Mariner
4. Cade

I'd love any advice because we'd like to make our decision on a tank to replace our redsea this week, but I don't want to make the mistake of rushing into a bad scenario.... TIA!

I ordered a CADE 2100 S2 that arrives tomorrow. I went with Cade based upon reputation and I LOVE how they designed their sump, ATO reservoir, and plumbing setup. They have steel/glass stands which are stunning… just loved the sleek look.

 

[Dustin07]

Yeah the sump is a little tight but that’s because we opted to use the refugium. That section can actually be removed to give the main chamber a little more space.

Yeah 6 or half dozen right? You got the light in there, I feel like my macro reactor is just a refugium in a bottle. It can actually be located anywhere because it's plumbed. I just like it in the sump for redundant water leak safety.

 

[Dustin07]

I ordered a CADE 2100 S2 that arrives tomorrow. I went with Cade based upon reputation and I LOVE how they designed their sump, ATO reservoir, and plumbing setup. They have steel/glass stands which are stunning… just loved the sleek look.

I pulled it up, it's a pretty sweet system! I like the side doors and additional shelf for dosing pump etc. I'm not sure I want to extend the budget as far as a Cade would require but I see the benefits on that tank and cabinet layout for sure.

 

[nickng]

Hi, I have seen the IM and waterbox and redsea 425xl aquariums at different LFS. Here are my thoughts for a 4 feet long tank and how I went about making the decision... (appologies that my reply is abit long)
(A) my preference is for something with dimensions at least 48x24 footprint to 48x30 footprint. Anything less will have less area for monticaps to grow out properly. Also it's easier to make larger 3 dimensional caves for tangs to swim in and out and reduce fish aggression.
(B) placement to leave a gap of around 4 - 5 inches away from the wall so that I can vacuum, sweep the floor behind the tank and also put a big UV, 55W and an external canister filter behind.
(C) ruled out the cade because of the built in ATO. Eventually the ATO will develop bacterial film on the sidewalls and near impossible to clean. Also filling up that ATO is a pain.
With those requirements, the only tanks are
(1) Waterbox INFINIA Reef 150.4 - 48x25x22, 12mm glass, sump 42x18.7x15 @ 42gallons, herbie drain
(2) Innovative marine EXT100 - 48x24x20, 15mm glass , sump 39x19x18 @ 57 gallons, bean animal drain
(3) IM EXT 150 - 48x35x20,15mm glass ,sump 39x19x18 @57 gallons - Full eurobrace, bean animal drain
(4) IM INT 100 - 48x24x20, 15mm glass, but actual display is only 48x22x20, bean animal drain
(5) IM INT 150 - 48x35x20, 15mm glass, but actual display is 48x32x20, - partial eurobrace, bean animal drain
(6) Mariner 100 - 48x22x22,15mm glass, - Full Bottom eurobrace with armoured seams, the only one with wooden stand & small sump, bean animal drain
prices are all approx the same within +-~$200

Given the specs,
ruled out
(A) herbie overflow since it requires more tuning to keep the overflow+drain silent. Any slight change in the pump speed even on a DC return pump due to voltage supply fluctuation, slowing down due to slight back pressure in the main siphon when the filter sock or roller mat is dirty, or large wave ripples causes some noises in the herbie overflow. 3 drain bean animal can handle this much better and requires no retuning even after water changes etc.
(B) customer service and response. Contacted all three waterbox, IM, Eshopps mariner. IM and Eshopps are the most responsive and possible to reach an actual sales person and can arrange a call to talk to their tech or person who designed the tank. Very responsive. Waterbox no one to call directly or schedule delivery etc.
(C) go for 15mm glass and a sump with a good sized refugium
(D) Fiji cube roller filter fits the rectangular filter sock area of the IM sump and was told that IM has a prototype roller filter for their RFS sump, not yet announced publicly.
(E) easy to modify the EXT 100 and 150 returns to be driven separately by two different return pumps and get even greater flow thru the tank and sump

Ideal IMHO is a tank with approx 48x24x22, metal stand, armoured seams and top or bottom eurobraced and large sump that is filter sock ready.

I went for the IM EXT100 but with hindsight the EXT150 or INT 150 would have been nicer. The mariner 100 was my other pick but I would have to do some DIY to drill the sump to add another chamber for a refugium like what is done in the premium redsea S-1000 max series. And I wanted a metal stand instead of ply.

About space in the EXT100 for equipment it's a bit tight but possible to put everything in the stand with the sump and make it accessible...

Here’s my setup

 

[nickng]

Or a different way to mount all the equipment and ato in the stand https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/innovative-marine-100-int-upgrade-wet_rocks_reef-2-0.916392/

With the EXT150 or INT150, there’s plenty of space to mount equipment

 

[Dustin07]

Hi, I have seen the IM and waterbox and redsea 425xl aquariums at different LFS. Here are my thoughts for a 4 feet long tank and how I went about making the decision... (appologies that my reply is abit long)
(A) my preference is for something with dimensions at least 48x24 footprint to 48x30 footprint. Anything less will have less area for monticaps to grow out properly. Also it's easier to make larger 3 dimensional caves for tangs to swim in and out and reduce fish aggression.
(B) placement to leave a gap of around 4 - 5 inches away from the wall so that I can vacuum, sweep the floor behind the tank and also put a big UV, 55W and an external canister filter behind.
(C) ruled out the cade because of the built in ATO. Eventually the ATO will develop bacterial film on the sidewalls and near impossible to clean. Also filling up that ATO is a pain.
With those requirements, the only tanks are
(1) Waterbox INFINIA Reef 150.4 - 48x25x22, 12mm glass, sump 42x18.7x15 @ 42gallons, herbie drain
(2) Innovative marine EXT100 - 48x24x20, 15mm glass , sump 39x19x18 @ 57 gallons, bean animal drain
(3) IM EXT 150 - 48x35x20,15mm glass ,sump 39x19x18 @57 gallons - Full eurobrace, bean animal drain
(4) IM INT 100 - 48x24x20, 15mm glass, but actual display is only 48x22x20, bean animal drain
(5) IM INT 150 - 48x35x20, 15mm glass, but actual display is 48x32x20, - partial eurobrace, bean animal drain
(6) Mariner 100 - 48x22x22,15mm glass, - Full Bottom eurobrace with armoured seams, the only one with wooden stand & small sump, bean animal drain
prices are all approx the same within +-~$200

Given the specs,
ruled out
(A) herbie overflow since it requires more tuning to keep the overflow+drain silent. Any slight change in the pump speed even on a DC return pump due to voltage supply fluctuation, slowing down due to slight back pressure in the main siphon when the filter sock or roller mat is dirty, or large wave ripples causes some noises in the herbie overflow. 3 drain bean animal can handle this much better and requires no retuning even after water changes etc.
(B) customer service and response. Contacted all three waterbox, IM, Eshopps mariner. IM and Eshopps are the most responsive and possible to reach an actual sales person and can arrange a call to talk to their tech or person who designed the tank. Very responsive. Waterbox no one to call directly or schedule delivery etc.
(C) go for 15mm glass and a sump with a good sized refugium
(D) Fiji cube roller filter fits the rectangular filter sock area of the IM sump and was told that IM has a prototype roller filter for their RFS sump, not yet announced publicly.
(E) easy to modify the EXT 100 and 150 returns to be driven separately by two different return pumps and get even greater flow thru the tank and sump

Ideal IMHO is a tank with approx 48x24x22, metal stand, armoured seams and top or bottom eurobraced and large sump that is filter sock ready.

I went for the IM EXT100 but with hindsight the EXT150 or INT 150 would have been nicer. The mariner 100 was my other pick but I would have to do some DIY to drill the sump to add another chamber for a refugium like what is done in the premium redsea S-1000 max series. And I wanted a metal stand instead of ply.

About space in the EXT100 for equipment it's a bit tight but possible to put everything in the stand with the sump and make it accessible...

Here’s my setup

I agree with all of that. Aside from the customer service part you mentioned, what other aspect of the WB were you dodging? We are on the same page with 99% of what you said, although for the footprint, the WB 110 is really growing on me. that extra 3" of space is huge in my living room setup for me.

it's funny you mention Mariner 100 because thats the tank my favorite LFS has right now brand new on their floor for sale. I had never heard of Mariner before though so I didn't take it too seriously at first. Does not look like their cabinet comes with metal bracing. the sump looks "OK" about the same as others. will be cramped and probably modified. I like the extra storage area in the cabinet, but I'm starting to realize no matter what I do, I'll probably setup a second small cabinet beside my DT to place my nano tank (4) on top of, and store supplies inside of.

 

[nickng]

The only other thing about the waterbox is the adherence to a herbie drain with only two drain pipes. With the 3 drain pipe bean animal, it's very silent and I never once had to adjust the drain gate valve once it's dialed in. Not once in the approx 11 months I have had the tank. Even after water change. Previously I had plumbed my own herbie style drains and it's more sensitive to adjustments and gets noisier with very high flow rates ie ~ 1000 gph.
Also with the 3rd drain, there's the option of running the two drains like a herbie overflow but with a simple DIY convert the 3rd drain into a separate channel for plumbing a closed-loop UV that bypasses the sump.

I've heard the IM bean animal setup on EXT 200 and INT in a LFS, the tanks are several years old and overflows are completely silent ie absolutely no sound. All the redseas and Waterboxes are noisier ie there's water flow sound. I only wished IM added armoured seams to their construction.

I like the IM sumps with the fitted covers... Eliminates salt creep

As for eshopps after talking to their tech I really wanted one and was literally trying to get them to sell me the tank without the stand! ... Or at least seriously contemplating getting a metal stand that will cost an additional $400 to 1K with significant DIY. But since I plan to upgrade to larger 200 to 300 gallon in 4-5 years time, I decided not to go this route.

After talking to the eshopps and IM tech guys, I know that the silicone they use needs a cure time of 14 days or more. This is good because part of the problem with redsea stems from the silicone they use that cures a lot faster. There're discussions on this on non-english forums (german sites).

 

[BryanM]

I don’t find my wb overflow/drain to be noisy at all, but I only run 3x sump->tank turnover

 

[Shawn D]

Figi cube makes nice tanks.