Importance of Alk and Softies. What role does it play in general overall health? How much alk are you using daily in your Softy dominant reefs?

[LRT]

Id really like to know as ive made huge error not diligently keeping alk maintained this past year.
Right now I'm seeing .5/day usage of alk in my shroom dominated system.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

A soft coral tank can easily use 2 dKH per day. Coralline algae is a big user, as are many soft corals (not mushrooms), snails, clams, etc. Anything growing a shell is using alkalinity.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Skeleton formation in soft corals and calcareous sponges | ANU Research School of Biology

Calcium carbonate skeletal elements produced by marine animals range from microscopic to massive, can be stunningly beautiful and often have immense ecological importance. While the relatively well understood hexacoral biomineralization involves formation of solid aragonite structures, the...

biology.anu.edu.au

Skeleton formation in soft corals and calcareous sponges
Calcium carbonate skeletal elements produced by marine animals range from microscopic to massive, can be stunningly beautiful and often have immense ecological importance. While the relatively well understood hexacoral biomineralization involves formation of solid aragonite structures, the octocorals produce tiny calcite spicules embedded in their soft bodies.

 

[LRT]

Skeleton formation in soft corals and calcareous sponges | ANU Research School of Biology

Calcium carbonate skeletal elements produced by marine animals range from microscopic to massive, can be stunningly beautiful and often have immense ecological importance. While the relatively well understood hexacoral biomineralization involves formation of solid aragonite structures, the...

biology.anu.edu.au

Skeleton formation in soft corals and calcareous sponges
Calcium carbonate skeletal elements produced by marine animals range from microscopic to massive, can be stunningly beautiful and often have immense ecological importance. While the relatively well understood hexacoral biomineralization involves formation of solid aragonite structures, the octocorals produce tiny calcite spicules embedded in their soft bodies.

Thanks Randy it makes sense that mushrooms are not using alk because they don't have a skeleton to build. Ill chalk my usage up to everything you have mentioned.
What kind of effect does high or low alk have on the soft tissue of a mushroom? Does higher or lower alk change the way shrooms or other soft corals take up or use nutrients?

 

[blasterman]

Softies consume nitrate, shrooms consume a lot of it. Nitrate production consumes alk.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Softies consume nitrate, shrooms consume a lot of it. Nitrate production consumes alk.

Nitrate production consumes alk, but nitrate consumption adds it back. As long as nitrate is steady (at any level) the nitrogen cycle is not impacting alkalinity.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Another thing that soft corals (and even macroalgae) do is use bicarbonate/carbonate for photosynthesis (in place of the much harder to get CO2). This process does not actually use up any alkalinity, but changes in alkalinity will change the availability bicarbonate (or carbonate) to them for photosynthesis.

 

[LRT]

Nitrate production consumes alk, but nitrate consumption adds it back. As long as nitrate is steady (at any level) the nitrogen cycle is not impacting alkalinity.

Ok I think this explains what im seeing. Having hard time getting Nitrates to register in New system. Feeding heavy but also trying to be careful and watch ammonia. Going to whip up a batch of sodium nitrate tonight to bring up to 5ppm and see what they are consuming and what it does if anything to alk.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Ok I think this explains what im seeing. Having hard time getting Nitrates to register in New system. Feeding heavy but also trying to be careful and watch ammonia. Going to whip up a batch of sodium nitrate tonight to bring up to 5ppm and see what they are consuming and what it does if anything to alk.

At that nitrate level from foods, the nitrogen cycle is not impacting alkalinity.

As you add nitrate, it will boost alkalinity each time it is consumed.

The exact amount is 2.3 dKH added for each 50 ppm of nitrate dosed and consumed.

 

[LRT]

Awesome. That's exactly what I was looking for.
Can't wait to see what params are doing when I start dosing Nitrates over next few days. My old system settled out to around 10-15ppm and things where fine. Embarrased to say I wasn't maintaing alk and assuming water changes would keep alk levels appropriate. Id imagine I was running super low alk with the amount of coraline and other creatures I have in system using it.

 

[Jposch]

At that nitrate level from foods, the nitrogen cycle is not impacting alkalinity.

As you add nitrate, it will boost alkalinity each time it is consumed.

The exact amount is 2.3 dKH added for each 50 ppm of nitrate dosed and consumed.

So, in theory, in my all softie tank, I could feed enough to not have to ever dose alk supp?? I've had my nitrates to 150ppm man many times, and have even gone up to 1500ppm once. 1500ppm was probably not a useful endeavor. lol

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So, in theory, in my all softie tank, I could feed enough to not have to ever dose alk supp?? I've had my nitrates to 150ppm man many times, and have even gone up to 1500ppm once. 1500ppm was probably not a useful endeavor. lol

It's possible, but somewhat unlikely, if you have coralline.

 

[surcalation]

In my soft coral tank, it consumers 0.3dkh per day. I currently run mine at around 8dkh using a UK based dosing company called Reef Zlements. I perform zero water changes and my N03 has been 25ppm for months! Phosphates are bit more temperamental ranging from 0.03-0.1ppm as I try and find a balance and finish dealing with dinos/cyano/gha

 

[Jposch]

It's possible, but somewhat unlikely, if you have coralline.

I do not have coralline in any measurable way. possible calcifying brown and greens on my rocks, but no pink or purple. currently, i only consume 1dkh per 2 weeks or longer.

 

[Jposch]

And, it's not like my tank is barren. Lol my coral to rock ratio is near 1:1 lol peninsula, so the other side is just as packed.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I do not have coralline in any measurable way. possible calcifying brown and greens on my rocks, but no pink or purple. currently, i only consume 1dkh per 2 weeks or longer.

Then nitrate dosing will significantly boost your alk.

 

[Jposch]

That would probably explain my lack of alk consumption. I had been basing dosage off of alk, but perhaps I should be testing calcium instead. I only dose every few weeks, and typically only add calcium every other time i actually test it. with such low consumption, I figure All-For-Reef is worth the convenience. I had read about this phenomenon previously, but you state in most situations, the alk boost is counteracted and balances out.

 

[Jposch]

But, my tank can consume 150ppm nitrates in 5 days when dosing potassium nitrate. I'm terrible about regular dosing, but I have notice when alk gets down to 8dkh, it takes 2 weeks to drop to 7.5, so idk.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

But, my tank can consume 150ppm nitrates in 5 days when dosing potassium nitrate. I'm terrible about regular dosing, but I have notice when alk gets down to 8dkh, it takes 2 weeks to drop to 7.5, so idk.

How do you know that? That rate seems quite high, and I'm somewhat skeptical it wasn't real. If done when there may have been any nitrite around, it might not be accurate.

in any case, dosing that much nitrate will boost alkalinity too high in many tanks. You'd add 7 dKh of alkalinity in those 5 days.

 

[Nhjmc]

Skeleton formation in soft corals and calcareous sponges | ANU Research School of Biology

Calcium carbonate skeletal elements produced by marine animals range from microscopic to massive, can be stunningly beautiful and often have immense ecological importance. While the relatively well understood hexacoral biomineralization involves formation of solid aragonite structures, the...

biology.anu.edu.au

Skeleton formation in soft corals and calcareous sponges
Calcium carbonate skeletal elements produced by marine animals range from microscopic to massive, can be stunningly beautiful and often have immense ecological importance. While the relatively well understood hexacoral biomineralization involves formation of solid aragonite structures, the octocorals produce tiny calcite spicules embedded in their soft bodies.

Hi Randy,
Totally off topic but hoping you can help me with this algae issue I've got going on it's bad. Can you DM me please???