importance of trace elements while growing SPS corals?

Do you dose trace elements into your reef?

  • No

    Votes: 306 54.0%
  • Not sure what that it

    Votes: 18 3.2%
  • Yes (Tell us about what you've got going)

    Votes: 243 42.9%

  • Total voters
    567
hello,

Sorry I don’t know how to quote the quote box for your questions so I will just start there :). Thank you as well it’s been an interesting journey for sure.

1.) low nutrient is when your running nitrates and phospahates either at zero or very close to it. The ecosystem needs some nutrients to feed on and if there isn’t they simply starve. So for example if you have super low nitrates and phosphates but dose your alk Huber than 9 and calcium higher than 440, they tend not to color up as well or grow as well because there is lack of food and nutrients in the system, the water is tooo clean. Now granted some have found certain spots and are able to. Whats tricky is nobodies system is the same. Example 98% of all corals only need 200 par to grow and show their colors. When corals go brown it’s simply a parameter is off that it doesn’t like. Many times all of my coral do great and one doesn’t. Makes it harder to find what it doesn’t like (usually 1 by 1 step method works). But anyway when using a low nutrient system of you keep the alk and cal at the normal levels or tad lower then they thrive more. Another point is leds are a focused light. You may try turning them down 10% and see if there are any changes then obviously adjust where necessary. In a low nutrient system usually magnesium is still around 1390 but changes to like 1340 for lps sps and 1300 roughly for mixed reef.

2.) the redsea nopox is designed to lower po3 and Po4 aka nitrates and phosphates. So for example my tank is 240 gallons and I have 13 fish (five are tangs, 6 green chromies, bellus angle and a clown fish). I also have a very full reef, at one point I was changing up to 80 gallons a week because my nitrates would go to 20ppm. Now I have no idea why i
Haven’t figured that out yet, (can’t be feeding I feed five frozen cubes once a day for 13 fish), I use just coral reef food (it’s a fine powder but works pretty good (name is coral reef food it’s in a little bag). Some times twice a week sometimes once week depends). But I use an eye drop to feed each one, so again 160 gallons in two weeks every two weeks is over 50%. Plus I used filter socks, skimmer and fiber pads to catch left over. It wasn’t fun and my sps didn’t like the higher nitrates but the rest of the tank loved it. So instead of doing that I went to the nopox and it keeps it in check.
Nopox is I guess similar to gfo or vodka dosing per say, but there are some catches to it. First off even redsea clearly states on page 6 that once you start you basicslly can’t stop. You can go down to the minimum, and then maybe lower that once a week. But generally you will make your corals become addicted to it. So by stopping it suddenly will definitely kill them but even after time corals May have what we call withdrawal symptoms. It’s like alcohol in some cases and other like benzodiazepines, prednisone, opioids etc. one can ween off of it, but still suffer withdrawal symptoms for life. I have attempted to actually very slowly ween my tank off, two things happened quickly, nitrates went up and my corals went very upset. So something to strongly consider if you do. As long as you do the min for your water volume your fine. You can skip a day as well but I would not suggest two etc. it’s 30 for the bottle but lasts me a good six months where as water changes I was close to 150-200 so it’s cheaper and easier also (for me since a five gallon water jug is half my weight at 45 pounds roughly) carring 12 of those is no fun.

3 and 4 the instructions are better thrown away they are terrible. It took me awhile to figure it out also and I work in the medical field lol. But in short its based on calcium find out how many grams you dose a day and convert that to ml and your set. I have never had much luck in chasing numbers or extreme testing. I’m sure they make a test somewhere but haven’t seen one. I use the crappy api and they are close enough they work. Point to consider it’s been shown in scientific studies and papers that super stable systems actually weaken coral. The more your tank swings (not a lot) the better. If I go from an 8 to 7 alk that’s fine going to 6 or 9 or higher not so much. You want the tank to have some minor changes or swings it builds up the immunity of your corals and fish as well.

I feed just some cheap reef food it’s called coral reef food (literally lol). It’s like 5.99 st my lfs. They finally sell reef roids so may try that for the giggles. If you have more questions by all means ask and thanks for the compliments.

Cheers
Sarah
 
Not sure if I explained that very well.. this might be better

Untitled.png


We can top up the calcium to 400ppm with something like kalkwasser, but the trace elements will also be equally depleted.

I would say while this is true and quite applicable to the major elements trace elements can be a different story - they will be less than a 100% w/c of course, however when doing daily AWC they are constantly added or removed if the concentration is too high. For most trace elements they just need to be present, and they exist at such low amounts in nsw that even ICP tests get iffy on some elements with the limit of detection and error ranges. While with AWC and a salt brand one feels is complete will be adding those elements daily. The concentration of these elements vs the w/c is of course based off the consumption and most trace elements do not appear to be consumed very quickly with the amount that is added with feeding the tank, which is another reason AWC are nice to balance those from getting too high - at least to me. Feeding can be a significant source of trace elements where food has nearly no impact on the major elements.

Not that any one method is needed to have a nice tank, just I am lazy!
 
I was dosing Kalkwasser thru my ATO but my Alk start getting lower and lower all the way to 5.5dkh so I try ATI Essentials Pro manually dosing both parts @ 5ml a day and got my alk stable at 7.5dkh Now I'm putting to work two BRS dosers to make my job easier.
 
I was dosing Kalkwasser thru my ATO but my Alk start getting lower and lower all the way to 5.5dkh so I try ATI Essentials Pro manually dosing both parts @ 5ml a day and got my alk stable at 7.5dkh Now I'm putting to work two BRS dosers to make my job easier.

I like the essentials pro because it's so concentrated. The two 2 litre bottles should last me the year!
Also no need to dose anything else like trace colours etc. They're a complete solution in two bottles.
 
To answer the original question. Yes, I use the Triton method, which includes ALK, MAG, CAL and Trace elements.

From what I see above, some of your numbers look a bit weird.

For example:
ALK/DKH: 8.1 - 8.3 = Looks a bit low for a tank with SPS corals. I'd shoot for 9 to 10.
CA: 300- 350 = Looks a bit low for a tank with SPS corals. I'd shoot for 450
MG: 1400-1550
upload_2019-5-28_16-16-56.png

Low 8’s is not low dkh for an sps tank. There isn’t really a reason to have dKh higher than 8.5, and if one does one should have higher nutrient levels to support the possible increased growth from those high of levels. Some keep their sps tanks at 6.5, and I think many target levels between 7.5-8.0 dKh. In some instances, even 8.5 dKh is high; it just depends on the system.

Ca is a bit low, and I don’t think you Mg levels are an issue. Live aquaria salt aka Fritz RPM does give me wonky numbers but I haven’t had an issue with it 400 gallons ago. I just don’t care for it anymore. What Red Sea salt were you using, OP?

What sticks out to me is your lighting schedule. You max at 85% for only 2 hours. Your peak photoperiod should be 6-8 hrs.
 
Not sure if I explained that very well.. this might be better

Untitled.png


We can top up the calcium to 400ppm with something like kalkwasser, but the trace elements will also be equally depleted.
great graphic. a picture is worth 1000 words more often than not
 
Low 8’s is not low dkh for an sps tank. There isn’t really a reason to have dKh higher than 8.5, and if one does one should have higher nutrient levels to support the possible increased growth from those high of levels. Some keep their sps tanks at 6.5, and I think many target levels between 7.5-8.0 dKh. In some instances, even 8.5 dKh is high; it just depends on the system.

Ca is a bit low, and I don’t think you Mg levels are an issue. Live aquaria salt aka Fritz RPM does give me wonky numbers but I haven’t had an issue with it 400 gallons ago. I just don’t care for it anymore. What Red Sea salt were you using, OP?

What sticks out to me is your lighting schedule. You max at 85% for only 2 hours. Your peak photoperiod should be 6-8 hrs.

I agree. It's far more important to have stable values and the correct balance between alk and calcium.

7.5.dkh - 414ppm
8dkh - 417ppm
8.5dkh - 421ppm
9dkh - 424ppm
9.5dkh - 428ppm

(Google alk calcium calculators)
 
I agree. It's far more important to have stable values and the correct balance between alk and calcium.

7.5.dkh - 414ppm
8dkh - 417ppm
8.5dkh - 421ppm
9dkh - 424ppm
9.5dkh - 428ppm

(Google alk calcium calculators)

I get nervous when my alk hits 8.4+, as I’ve seen my own stuff not do that well at that level for long times (8.5-8.7). I always try to shoot for 8.0 max now.
 
I agree. It's far more important to have stable values and the correct balance between alk and calcium.

7.5.dkh - 414ppm
8dkh - 417ppm
8.5dkh - 421ppm
9dkh - 424ppm
9.5dkh - 428ppm

(Google alk calcium calculators)
for some clarification, here's a snap shot of the lighting schedule.

lighting schedule.JPG
 
I agree. It's far more important to have stable values and the correct balance between alk and calcium.

7.5.dkh - 414ppm
8dkh - 417ppm
8.5dkh - 421ppm
9dkh - 424ppm
9.5dkh - 428ppm

(Google alk calcium calculators)

This "balance" between alkalinity and calcium levels doesn't exist. You could have calcium levels from 380-500 and there would be no difference in the health of the coral(s). There is a wide margin for acceptable results and no need to get into the weeds on maintaining a specific number.
 
The problem with your question is, you will get a million different answers, everyone does it differently and have different systems, but in all my years of doing this stability is one common denominator for the vast majority of successful SPS tanks.... if your going to do water changes, pick a salt, then keep your ALK, Ca, K and Mg at this same level. I’d get this bit correct before Starting looking for other solutions to your issues otherwise you’ll be chasing your tail forever and never knowing what solves what issue... after a few months get an ICP test done and report back and we can then help further.. as regarding test kits, trace elements are so difficult to measure even for ICPs, I’d potentially get a potassium kit, the others I wouldn’t bother with for now...
great advise. Thanks for your honesty.
 

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