Instant Cycling?? They do it on TV!

[MaidOfDishonor]

Anyone ever watch the cable show "Tanked" where this company builds amazing aquariums? What gets me is that they don't cycle the tank before they put the fish in. And we're talking some expensive fish. I've often wondered how they got away with this. Then one episode they said that they use live sand with all the bacteria, etc in it so they just add saltwater and throw in the fish and that's that. Does that work? I've seen live sand for sale in the bags they use, could I do that with a new tank? Now they never use real coral, does that make a difference?

Curiously,
Kate

 

[FishNFrags]

Yes it does. And they are adding additives to the new tank such as Bio Spira etc.. to make sure the cycling process won't be toxic to the fish only tanks they do. Reef tanks should always be old school when it comes to cycling them... or you will have problems later on down the road with it.

 

[Eienna]

The only truly effective SW cycling bacteria starters I know of are Dr. Tim's One and Only (I'll pick this one every time) and Bio-Spira. Tetra Safestart does well for FW tanks.

That said...the Tanked guys stock far too much too fast - and many fish have died for their mistakes. They also stock fish incompatible with each other. They can build tanks, but really have not done their homework on the livestock themselves. Do NOT mimic these guys; in many cases it's a disaster waiting to happen.

A bacterial starter is a wonderful thing when used properly, but it does not take the place of fully curing your live rock. If you start with dry rock or plastic inserts, this stuff is perfect for seeding that crucial bacteria.

You still need to stock slowly.

I have a link to a good video for you but I have to go find it again XD

 

[Eienna]

Here it is. n.n
http://www.MrSaltWaterTank.com/bacteria-in-a-bottle-snake-oil-or-worth-trusting/

 

[glb]

I agree that Tanked is irresponsible with the fish.

 

[Eienna]

Point made. I'd rather not turn the discussion into yet another Tanked-bashing session.

Dr. Tim's product actually saved my fish on one occasion. It's the priciest of the options but absolutely excellent. Using a dewormer, I accidentally killed off all the nitrifying bacteria in my fully-stocked 50g freshwater tank. The ammonia shot up to 7 in a matter of a couple of days, prompting an emergency 100% water replacement. This was the middle of the night, but we sped to Deep Sea Creations as soon as it opened the next day (it's the only local store that carries it.) I dumped in the bottle, desperate for it to work and work fast. It did. Within 48 hours, the ammonia and nitrite were 0 - and stayed at 0. Total fish loss? A single rummynose tetra.


I've used ATM Colony on two occasions. Both times, it fell short in the nitrite-to-nitrate area. Tetra SafeStart works for FW but it takes around 7-14 days and I didn't have that kind of time.

 

[jmann124]

I used Dr. Tim's one and Only to cycle my 75. It really does work. Someone already said it, but I'll reiterate, you have to stock slowly, as you should do anyway. I put it in and then added 2 small O Clowns. It was a month before I added anything else and at least a month in between all additions and 6 months before adding any coral. I'm doing a tank move soon and will use it again to help with the changeover since I will put everything in a new tank. It may not be necessary, but it can't hurt.

 

[MaidOfDishonor]

Thanks for all the insight guys. I was always suspicious of the "Tanked" method, even though I'm a newbie!

Kate

 

[RichieT]

Yes it does. And they are adding additives to the new tank such as Bio Spira etc.. to make sure the cycling process won't be toxic to the fish only tanks they do. Reef tanks should always be old school when it comes to cycling them... or you will have problems later on down the road with it.

I'm curious as to what you think happens differently in an "old school" method of cycling vs. the dr. Tims method? I'm not saying you are wrong just wanted your opinion. I say this because I cycled my tank using Dr Tim's and had coral in the tank a week later after I saw the parameters stabilize. I'm going on 4 months now without any problems. No ammonia spikes or algae blooms. Alk/Cal/Mag are all stable with dosing. Complete mixed reef with shrooms and acros. Threw a nem in the first week. I'm just trying to see if I got lucky or did I do something different then others.

 

[glb]

Thanks for all the insight guys. I was always suspicious of the "Tanked" method, even though I'm a newbie!

Kate

You may be new, but you're asking great questions!

 

[Eienna]

I'm curious as to what you think happens differently in an "old school" method of cycling vs. the dr. Tims method? I'm not saying you are wrong just wanted your opinion. I say this because I cycled my tank using Dr Tim's and had coral in the tank a week later after I saw the parameters stabilize. I'm going on 4 months now without any problems. No ammonia spikes or algae blooms. Alk/Cal/Mag are all stable with dosing. Complete mixed reef with shrooms and acros. Threw a nem in the first week. I'm just trying to see if I got lucky or did I do something different then others.

The main thing us that the rock MUST be properly cured. If not, even if the additive works the nitrate will skyrocket from the ammonia being produced. Also, there are other compounds released as rock cures that could give you major issues, such as gigantic algal blooms, if you don't allow that process to happen first.

You also need to stock slowly. Using a bacterial seed does NOT mean you can fully stock instantly. It speeds up the initial cycle but does not provide enough for a full bioload right off the bat. They also do not provide the needed denitrifiers and other waste-consuming bacteria that you need to build up as you stock.

 

[gmoney243]

What they also dont tell you is on tanked they use well seeded bioballs full.of bacteria that they culture and use on the tanks so.as to avoid spikes.in ammonia. Brett explained this in a video i saw of.them and they have no.control over what the producers edit and put in the show.

Only ammonia is harmfull at low levels in SW nitrite isnt harmfull untill at least 300ppm while ammonia is deadly at 1ppm. Posted the article on this a while.back if you search my name.you should be able to find the post with a link to.the article

 

[Eienna]

What they also dont tell you is on tanked they use well seeded bioballs full.of bacteria that they culture and use on the tanks so.as to avoid spikes.in ammonia. Brett explained this in a video i saw of.them and they have no.control over what the producers edit and put in the show.

Only ammonia is harmfull at low levels in SW nitrite isnt harmfull untill at least 300ppm while ammonia is deadly at 1ppm. Posted the article on this a while.back if you search my name.you should be able to find the post with a link to.the article

That note about the nitrite is incorrect. It's more toxic than nitrate, and nitrate is harmful FAR sooner than 300ppm!

 

[gmoney243]

That note about the nitrite is incorrect. It's more toxic than nitrate, and nitrate is harmful FAR sooner than 300ppm!

I trust Randy Holmes Farely

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.php

 

[poolkeeper1]

Well im sure your more knowledgeable than Randy Holmes Farely but im not so i can only trust what he writes

Nitrite and the Reef Aquarium by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

Is it possible you misinterpreted the results Mike? Nitrite in the Aquarium is deadly IME in even lower concentrations, The cycle starts with Ammonia rising then falling with a rise in nitrite and when the cycle is complete the Nitrite will be converted to Nitrate which is way less harmful to life in the aquarium.
Randy's articals are a hard read unless your as knowledgeable as he is in these areas JMHO
Not looking to argue this topic this is just the way i understand how it works.
Bill

 

[gmoney243]

Sure its possible but he has a chart that shows lc50 levels in some fish are as high as 3000ppm for saltwater fish. He suspects the reason people think.its harmfull is one.because its very toxic to freshwater at low levels so people assume its deadly too, and two nitrite follows ammonia which is highly deadly. Im sure its also possible hes wrong but unless you can find an article by a person as reputable as him im gona trust him.

Im not saying nitrite is ok to have but it seems its not as deadly as people think it is in saltwater. Also he notes some fish that are able to live in fresh and saltwater the lc50 is still very low in freshwater wheres as they can handle.very high.levels when.in saltwater

 

[poolkeeper1]

Sure its possible but he has a chart that shows lc50 levels in some fish are as high as 3000ppm for saltwater fish. He suspects the reason people think.its harmfull is one.because its very toxic to freshwater at low levels so people assume its deadly too, and two nitrite follows ammonia which is highly deadly. Im sure its also possible hes wrong but unless you can find an article by a person as reputable as him im gona trust him.

No article just 30+ years of experience, Explain to me how testing levels in fish relates to the levels in water that IME is deadly? Seems something does not jive in this comparison, Fish/Water Levels

 

[glb]

That note about the nitrite is incorrect. It's more toxic than nitrate, and nitrate is harmful FAR sooner than 300ppm!

I have to agree here. It's true that nitrite is less toxic than ammonia but it's still toxic. Also, the fact that it's present at all shows that the tank isn't done cycling. I'd always err on the side of caution and wait until all of the nitrites are gone before adding fish. Why rush when the water will be so much safer if you wait? Just my humble opinion.

 

[gmoney243]

No article just 30+ years of experience, Explain to me how testing levels in fish relates to the levels in water that IME is deadly? Seems something does not jive in this comparison, Fish/Water Levels

Think you misunderstood me. The tests are levels in the water not inside the fish. Once again accourding to the article its the ammonia thats deadly not the nitrite.

 

[gmoney243]

I have to agree here. It's true that nitrite is less toxic than ammonia but it's still toxic. Also, the fact that it's present at all shows that the tank isn't done cycling. I'd always err on the side of caution and wait until all of the nitrites are gone before adding fish. Why rush when the water will be so much safer if you wait? Just my humble opinion.

I agree on waiting.till.cycle.is done too my point was to show.the article where.you guys can read and see for yourself. Love how in this hobby peoples opinions seem to trump data done by scientists. Not long ago it was people opinion that leds couldnt grow coral well. People also said algae scrubbers wouldnt work and still do, opinion.also says you need a skimmer to keep a saltwater tank. All of these have been proven wrong many times over. Opinion doesnt equal fact.