Is a "quarantine tank" really that essential?

SashimiTurtle · Mar 30, 2017

nervousmonkey said:
yeah, a QT is absolutely necessary. The stories you hear about with disasters in QT are from people prophylactically dosing their QT with copper and prazipro and who knows what else, which are all toxic to fish. I keep my fish in QT and observe. If I see something that I think is a disease or pest, i treat it then. Otherwise, use your QT time to feed well, fatten up your fish and make them healthy with fresh frozen foods and get your fish in breeding condition, not to have babies, but just because breeding condition is the healthiest your fish will be. Then when you add them to the DT, they aren't skinny and unhealthy and can better defend themselves as well as knowing that you didn't just introduce velvet or some other awful disease that will wipe out your fish in a matter of 2 or 3 days. Please QT, it will save you and your fish from heartbreak and death.

This right here...

nervousmonkey · Mar 30, 2017

LDH said:
Treating prophylactically scares me a little bit but I definitely want to have a qt setup... how long do you keep them in observation?

I keep them there for 30 days. Best to do a little longer and follow the tank transfer method (TTM) protocol to make sure you don't have ich or velvet or other diseases than to prophylactically treat. You need two tanks for TTM though, but it ensures the safety of your tank.

ngoodermuth · Mar 30, 2017

The only med Im administering prophylactically is prazi. I have a stack of other meds on hand and I stare at my fish more than I care to admit. If something comes up I treat it on a case by case basis, usually with the help of our incredibly knowledgeable and generous R2R fish disease experts [emoji41]

Paul B · Mar 31, 2017

edosan said:
I agree with most, but curious why do you say quarantining is bad for fish and totally destroy their IS ?

Sound a bit extreme, considering qt tank is just a normal tank with no deco or sand usually. Is not an hospital tank. For me qt are for observation and heavy feeding in order to boost their inmune system, not to destroy it.

Qt tank is a must imo.

I posted my theory on this so many times I am nauseous. I even wrote a book. If you feel quarantining is the best thing to do, go with that. Most people should do it anyway. But I stand with what I said, a quarantined fish has no immune system so keep quarantining and make sure to quarantine everything you add including any live food and don't add anything from the sea.

Areseebee · Mar 31, 2017

I'm not very good at immunology, but if they've been exposed to the antigens in nature, why would it go away? What is the lifetime of a lymphocyte in a fish? Do fish not have memory lymphocytes the same way we do?

edosan · Mar 31, 2017

Paul B said:
I posted my theory on this so many times I am nauseous. I even wrote a book. If you feel quarantining is the best thing to do, go with that. Most people should do it anyway. But I stand with what I said, a quarantined fish has no immune system so keep quarantining and make sure to quarantine everything you add including any live food and don't add anything from the sea.

Easy, copy paste...link

May I ask your definition of quarantine?
Do you think a QT is sterile environment?
I have read some of your theorys (live food, guts, add bacteria from the sea), and like I said I agree with most, but this.

Also I have friends that following what u said, have no fishes today after wipeouts.

Tahoe61 · Mar 31, 2017

Unless a hobbyist can provide actual necropsy data, titers on immunity then consider it anecdotal. Be cautious when following one hobbyist methods and recommendations regardless the coyness with which those anecdotals are presented. One tank one method is not inclusive or definitive.

atoll · Mar 31, 2017

Tahoe61 said:
Unless a hobbyist can provide actual necropsy data, titers on immunity then consider it anecdotal. Be cautious when following one hobbyist methods and recommendations regardless the coyness with which those anecdotals are presented. One tank one method is not inclusive or definitive.

Agreed that's why I am aware of a number of aquarists who practice similar methods and get similar results. All quite anecdotal of course and nothing scientific no papers written no identical tests carried out over a lengthy period of time etc etc after all we are just simple hobbiests who have been keeping of aquaria in a similar way over tens of years with the success we report. It's all a take it or leave it kind of thing and as said I wouldn't recommend anybody do the same it just works for us for one reason or another.

Paul B · Mar 31, 2017

[QUOTE="

Also I have friends that following what u said, have no fishes today after wipeouts.[/QUOTE]

Then I guess they didn't get their fish immune.

SashimiTurtle · Mar 31, 2017

Back when I first was getting my feet wet in the aquarium hobby, I had this beautiful female convict cichlid. I had her for a few years and wanted to get a male for her and raise the young. I didn't QT the make when I got him and ended up losing both just a few days later. After that, all fish get QT'd unless it's a less than ideal tank that has a bunch of cheap tetras or something. My new saltwater tank everything is getting QT'd.

saltyhog · Mar 31, 2017

atoll said:
Although I am fully aware that it is believed there are different strains of white spot (not sure if that has ever been confirmed scientifically or not) as I said I have very little experience of it and what experience I do have goes back many years but it appears treatment has hardly progressed with copper based remedies still very prevalent.

Actually hyposalinity resistant strains are well documented. I don't know of any parasitic or infective organisms that don't have multiple strains with slightly different attributes.

There are actually several different ways to treat C. irritans. Tank transfer method is probably used as much as copper these days. If you read the fish disease forum you can find our own @Humblefish work on using chloroquine phosphate to treat both Ich and velvet. The only circumstance I can think of where copper would be my first choice would be a wrasse with velvet since they don't tolerate CP.

atoll · Mar 31, 2017

saltyhog said:
Actually hyposalinity resistant strains are well documented. I don't know of any parasitic or infective organisms that don't have multiple strains with slightly different attributes.

There are actually several different ways to treat C. irritans. Tank transfer method is probably used as much as copper these days. If you read the fish disease forum you can find our own @Humblefish work on using chloroquine phosphate to treat both Ich and velvet. The only circumstance I can think of where copper would be my first choice would be a wrasse with velvet since they don't tolerate CP.

Well as said I just wouldn't know and forgive me if I continue to use what works for me for the latest 25 plus years. That's all I know and am far from certain i need to know anymore in truth. What certainly works for others is fine by me as said. I don't and haven't used any forms of chemical or other so called preventative recognised measures with my introduction of new fish not that I do often given the ones I have enjoy (hopefully they enjoy in their own way)a long life. I have documented on here my philosophy on reefkeeping there is no secret.

Paul B · Mar 31, 2017

edosan said:
Easy, copy paste...link

May I ask your definition of quarantine?
Do you think a QT is sterile environment?
I have read some of your theorys (live food, guts, add bacteria from the sea), and like I said I agree with most, but this.

Also I have friends that following what u said, have no fishes today after wipeouts.

People do not lose fish by using my method because my method involves getting your fish into a state of health and immunity that they can't get sick. If they got sick, they did not get their fish into that state as immune fish don't get sick, they continuously spawn and only die of old age. That is how my fish live and have been for over 40 years.

Here is a thread I started about immunity as I don't want to go over it again.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/a-discussion-on-immunity.209701/
I have no need to prove my theories and no reason to force anyone to quarantine, there are two ways to run a tank.

Only two. One is to have a natural tank with natural foods (no dried or freeze dried) where the fish are very healthy, have a fully functioning immune system because they are living just as they do in the sea along with disease causing bacteria "and" parasites. Or you can have a sterile system where everything is quaranteed so there are no diseases or parasites and nothing live or natural from the sea can be added without being "sterilized" through quarantining. Both systems have merits and deficiencies.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/two-methodoligies-to-keep-a-reef-tank.226995/

Humblefish · Mar 31, 2017

atoll said:
Well as said I just wouldn't know and forgive me if I continue to use what works for me for the latest 25 plus years. That's all I know and am far from certain i need to know anymore in truth. What certainly works for others is fine by me as said. I don't and haven't used any forms of chemical or other so called preventative recognised measures with my introduction of new fish not that I do often given the ones I have enjoy (hopefully they enjoy in their own way)a long life. I have documented on here my philosophy on reefkeeping there is no secret.

Hopefully Amyloodinium is not as commonly encountered in the UK as it currently is here in the US.

Paul B · Mar 31, 2017

Humblefish said:
Hopefully Amyloodinium is not as commonly encountered in the UK as it currently is here in the US.

I love Amyloodinium, I can't get enough Amyloodinium, I drink a glass of Amyloodinium every morning before breakfast, my fish bowl with Amyloodinium.

Good Morning Bob, how are you doing old Buddy.

Areseebee · Mar 31, 2017

There's a whole lot of false dichotomy going on right now.

atoll · Mar 31, 2017

Humblefish said:
Hopefully Amyloodinium is not as commonly encountered in the UK as it currently is here in the US.

Sorry no idea what that is and why should I? Hopefully, and as I know there are other UK members of this forum, they maybe able to answer your question as to just how common that is here. Personally I am quite happy I have no idea sorry

Humblefish · Mar 31, 2017

Paul B said:
I love Amyloodinium, I can't get enough Amyloodinium, I drink a glass of Amyloodinium every morning before breakfast, my fish bowl with Amyloodinium.

Good Morning Bob, how are you doing old Buddy.

Hey Paul, long time no see. I have an Achilles Tang I wanna bring over.

Paul B · Mar 31, 2017

I hope he has a real bad case of black ich, white ich Velvet and crushed Velvet as well as the heartbreak of psoriasis and measles. My fish could use a boost to their immunity.

Dancingmad · Mar 31, 2017

Areseebee said:
I'm not very good at immunology, but if they've been exposed to the antigens in nature, why would it go away? What is the lifetime of a lymphocyte in a fish? Do fish not have memory lymphocytes the same way we do?

Consider how many fish we get that are juveniles, especially those sensitive tangs! They may not have a bunch of time to develop immunity to anything before dumping them into a sterile, variant bacteria devoid QT for 70+ days. It took 12 years before I was exposed to chickenpox

. Okay, okay, bad anecdote haha, but I think my logic is sound.

Lots of cool discourses here. I will say I don't always QT, but when I do its brief, and far from a traditional QT setup(its one of my standalone macro algae tanks).

Happy reefin' y'all! The weekend is almost upon us *cheer*