Is AFR just calcium?

[Hooz]

Are you sure you have the Tropic Marin Balling method correct at 4? I thought it was 3 parts, A, B, and C with C being the sodium chloride free salt part.

You are correct! TM doesn't have a dedicated magnesium part. The BRS Pharma does, and uses the TM Balling C and TM Trace Elements. I got the 2 confused.

My intent was just to show that there are multiple methods out there that could absolutely use 4 dosing heads, or more!

 

[Ballyhoo]

You are correct! TM doesn't have a dedicated magnesium part. The BRS Pharma does, and uses the TM Balling C and TM Trace Elements. I got the 2 confused.

My intent was just to show that there are multiple methods out there that could absolutely use 4 dosing heads, or more!

but I'm only dosing with two heads. It's hard for me to keep my calcium at a low enough level dosing AFR and getting alkalinity up to 8.0. Perhaps I should settle with alkalinity at 7.0.

 

[Ballyhoo]

he but I'm only dosing with two heads. It's hard for me to keep my calcium at a low enough level dosing AFR and getting alkalinity up to 8.0. Perhaps I should settle with alkalinity at 7.0.

 

[Ballyhoo]

I know Randy said it's OK to have calcium up to 550. I think and I've read other posts where Randy said 600 Maybe would be OK before it starts to precipitate and cause of pH issues. The Salifert only tests to 500. My syringe was empty and I added an extra drop and sample turned blue so I think I'm about 505ppm CA+. That's adding 14 mg of AFR daily dosed drip method and I tested alkalinity today it measured 7.7 but I have been supplementing 2 to 4 ml of alkalinity daily. Any advice?

also, it was told to me in this thread not to worry about magnesium levels. I explained that I did measure MG before and it very low and I had coral death and sone I started dosing magnesium @ about 1 ML/day I haven't noticed any coral death. I don't know if it's coincidence, but my magnesium levels also may have stabilized just by my regular dosing of AFR. I'm just wondering, should I ignore measuring magnesium? I just wanna confirm that. Perhaps I should use my two head doser just for alkalinity and AFR.
If I really wanna go out, does anyone recommend buying the red sea four dozer, it comes with four components so it would seem like everything would dial in and my system would . I remember reading that with this device all you have to do is calculate the amount of calcium in your system and the Red Sea doser will figure out everything else as far as how much of the other three components to dose.

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[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Raising alk from 7 to 8 dKH only boosts calcium by 7 ppm using AFR, although calcium slowly rising if not held down by water change is going to happen with both AFR and kalkwasser.

 

[exnisstech]

If I really wanna go out, does anyone recommend buying the red sea four dozer, it comes with four components so it would seem like everything would dial in and my system would .

I say no. Then I think you'll start looking for stuff to dose because you have a four head doser and can't stand all heads not being in use.
I'm just saying. I've followed a few of your threads and sometimes you seem to complicate things just a tad more than necessary. Not being a jerk it's just an observation

 

[gbroadbridge]

I know Randy said it's OK to have calcium up to 550. I think and I've read other posts where Randy said 600 Maybe would be OK before it starts to precipitate and cause of pH issues. The Salifert only tests to 500.

The salifert test can read higher than 500, you just need to refill the titrant syringe and keep going until the colour change occurs :-)

If I really wanna go out, does anyone recommend buying the red sea four dozer,

I would suggest to only purchase what you need.

If you're choosing to use AFR you only need one head.

If you want to make things needlessly complicated you may need more heads later.

I know that if AFR were available when I started I would have saved a bunch of money on dosers and test kits.
But, maybe you like complicated stuff ...

 

[Ballyhoo]

Hello, I would like to come back to this discussion. I believe Randy had indicated only to measure for alkalinity using a AFR. I've done that dosing 20 mL of AFR every day. My alkalinity is reached 8.6. I'm just wondering what would be a good alkalinity level to reach so I would not have to measure MG and CA?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hello, I would like to come back to this discussion. I believe Randy had indicated only to measure for alkalinity using a AFR. I've done that dosing 20 mL of AFR every day. My alkalinity is reached 8.6. I'm just wondering what would be a good alkalinity level to reach so I would not have to measure MG and CA?

Keeping alk stable at any level will mostly keep calcium stable wherever it started. It will, in fact, very slowly rise, unless alk is added or consumed in some other way than calcification, but water changes will limit the rise.

Whatever magnesium does, it will move super slowly. Whether it rises or falls or stays the same depends largely on hiw
Much of the alk demand depends on coralline algae, which is a relatively larger user of magnesium.

I use AFR and do not measure calcium or
magnesium. At some point down the road I likely will, but I see no need at the moment.

 

[exnisstech]

I target 8.5 dkH on my tanks including my acro dominant tank. I only test calcium every couple of months or so. I don't test MG. Some like higher alk levels but my coral do well between 8-9 dkH and it leaves me room up or down if needed.

 

[rishma]

piling on to the comments above…I keep alkalinity stable around 8.5 dKH and never measure calcium or magnesium except the occasional ICP. My water changes keep the calcium from creeping up too much. It moves up very slowly over time.

 

[KStatefan]

I target 8.5 dKh also

 

[Ballyhoo]

coming back to the topic again, is there really a happy medium with AFR? The reason why I'm asking is because in a reef tank with plentiful coral there's gonna be growth and increased demand for dosing. so like right now I'm at 20 ML from my 42 gallon tank in 10ml from my smaller 30 gallon because it has no achro. But-the potential for growth of the coral is pretty significant so I would imagine overtime I'm gonna be dosing more AFR? Thus how often should I be testing alkalinity?

 

[rishma]

coming back to the topic again, is there really a happy medium with AFR? The reason why I'm asking is because in a reef tank with plentiful coral there's gonna be growth and increased demand for dosing. so like right now I'm at 20 ML from my 42 gallon tank in 10ml from my smaller 30 gallon because it has no achro. But-the potential for growth of the coral is pretty significant so I would imagine overtime I'm gonna be dosing more AFR? Thus how often should I be testing alkalinity?

How often to test is really tank dependent and personal preference. My tank has been running 4+ years and is very stable.i still like to test at least weekly but i know that is more often than really necessary. My alkalinity consumption tends to increase over time. I wait to make a change until I have 2-3 datapoints showing the trend. Testing weekly gives me that trend. On average I’m bumping up my dose about once a month.

it’s not AFR specific. As corals grow they consume more so I’d expect dosing tends to increase over time as tanks mature.

 

[twentyleagues]

coming back to the topic again, is there really a happy medium with AFR? The reason why I'm asking is because in a reef tank with plentiful coral there's gonna be growth and increased demand for dosing. so like right now I'm at 20 ML from my 42 gallon tank in 10ml from my smaller 30 gallon because it has no achro. But-the potential for growth of the coral is pretty significant so I would imagine overtime I'm gonna be dosing more AFR? Thus how often should I be testing alkalinity?

I would say test every 2-3 days if you are worried about it. Test at the same time and try to test after 24hrs of your afr dose. I dose when I get home from work, when I test I test first and dose after then feed the fish. My midday for the reef highest lighting point is set to be when I get home from work which overall is a good time in the lighting cycle to test for alk. I like to keep my alk at 8-9dkh as thats a good safe range that is not going to dip too low if there is massive increase in usage or a drop in usage. Usually if tested at least once a week you would notice its trending up or down from the previous week and maybe test again in 2 days to confirm. If you are dosing the same amount the shift should not be too dramatic in that time frame and still be with in a safe level either way. If you are someone that likes to keep alk at 7 or 12 you may want/need to test more often. Alk trending up or down 1-2dkh over a couple days to a week is not going to hurt your corals if you are in a "safe" zone. With consistent dosing of the same amount of afr that much of a increase or decrease in dkh would probably not happen in that time frame. And yes as @rishma said if you are doing the hobby right you will see increased demand with any dosing system not just afr.

 

[KStatefan]

coming back to the topic again, is there really a happy medium with AFR? The reason why I'm asking is because in a reef tank with plentiful coral there's gonna be growth and increased demand for dosing. so like right now I'm at 20 ML from my 42 gallon tank in 10ml from my smaller 30 gallon because it has no achro. But-the potential for growth of the coral is pretty significant so I would imagine overtime I'm gonna be dosing more AFR? Thus how often should I be testing alkalinity?

Currently I am testing once a week that work for the amount of demand change I have now and I can adjust dosing weekly and not have big swings. As my corals grow and demand increases I will increase that. When I first started dosing I checked daily for the first week just to make sure it was right.

 

[exnisstech]

coming back to the topic again, is there really a happy medium with AFR? The reason why I'm asking is because in a reef tank with plentiful coral there's gonna be growth and increased demand for dosing. so like right now I'm at 20 ML from my 42 gallon tank in 10ml from my smaller 30 gallon because it has no achro. But-the potential for growth of the coral is pretty significant so I would imagine overtime I'm gonna be dosing more AFR? Thus how often should I be testing alkalinity?

I'm testing very much like KStatefan
My SPS tank I test at least once a week if I'm not seeing an increase in consumption. When I have to increase my AFR amount I test daily or at least every other day until alk levels off. My acros are currently growing well and my AFR amount has doubled since August from 30ml to 60. I was at 45 ml when I posted in this thread back in September. Yesterday I added an outside airline to my skimmer and my overnight pH low was 8.1 up from 7.9-8.0 so suspect I'll be back to daily testing for a little while.

 

[Ballyhoo]

I'm testing very much like KStatefan
My SPS tank I test at least once a week if I'm not seeing an increase in consumption. When I have to increase my AFR amount I test daily or at least every other day until alk levels off. My acros are currently growing well and my AFR amount has doubled since August from 30ml to 60. I was at 45 ml when I posted in this thread back in September. Yesterday I added an outside airline to my skimmer and my overnight pH low was 8.1 up from 7.9-8.0 so suspect I'll be back to daily testing for a little while.

how large did you say your tank is?

 

[exnisstech]

how large did you say your tank is?

About 60g total. I think coral being kept is more of a determining factor than water volume when it comes to dosing AFR

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

coming back to the topic again, is there really a happy medium with AFR? The reason why I'm asking is because in a reef tank with plentiful coral there's gonna be growth and increased demand for dosing. so like right now I'm at 20 ML from my 42 gallon tank in 10ml from my smaller 30 gallon because it has no achro. But-the potential for growth of the coral is pretty significant so I would imagine overtime I'm gonna be dosing more AFR? Thus how often should I be testing alkalinity?

I test alk about once every 1-2 weeks to see if I need to adjust the dose. Since my tank is new, demand is steadily increasing and most times I’ve made some upward adjustments.