Is AquaForest the next evolution of zeolite use?

[jeremy.gosnell]

jeremy.gosnell submitted a new Article:

Is AquaForest the next evolution of zeolite use?

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All images of coral colonies and zeolite are public domain images sourced from iStock. AquaForest product images have been used under fair use guidelines to illustrate specific products.

Around reef2reef anyone can catch a glimpse of discussion about AquaForest products. With the ongoing thread that displays gorgeous reef tanks implementing AquaForest’s products, it’s sure to catch at least a few reef keeper’s...

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[JasReef]

I’ve had Zeobak and Sponge Power dropper lids fail, within a few days of opening a new bottle. For premium priced marine aquarium products

I had the same luck with aquaforest just about 3 months ago but never with KZ. And the packaging it comes in is nice but this bottles are pretty bland as well.

 

[Anirban]

I had the same luck with aquaforest just about 3 months ago but never with KZ. And the packaging it comes in is nice but this bottles are pretty bland as well.

I see people reporting about these bottles but I never got one with those white droppers. Is there a particular seller who got those bottles? Mine always come up with black lids and droppers.

 

[JasReef]

I got them from amazon in May.

 

[Anirban]

I got them from amazon in May.

Hmmm......I just checked amazon earlier when I first ordered from Amazon they were reselling it from Saltysupply but now somehow they are selling it by themselves. According to my knowledge salty supply is the only dealer in USA then how amazon is directly selling it? How they are getting them no idea....I order mine in may too but from salty supply and got ones with black cap and dropper.....

 

[zoomonster]

The old bottles (before they started changing product names) have black droppers. The newer stuff has white droppers. It's obvious they must have changed suppliers because the ones with white tops are mostly junk (at least the ones with nipples on top). I have a couple that will only pick up a few drops or squirt when you try to dose a drop. Never had one rip though. Other than that good stuff and I'm quite happy with what I use which is coral a, coral v, coral e, pro bio s and np pro. Soon just the a/v/e as my bio pellets kick in and may periodically add pro bio s. The e may go also and may just use kz coral snow again. Pretty sure its major benefit is raising alk which I don't need/want and it probably has some benefit like coral snow. Overall sand bed has never looked better and my corals that were somewhat stalled from previous alk issues have all colored up and started growing again.

I heard rumors a while back they were going to do water testing (in the US) and take on Triton and I see they announced it as part of a MACNA freebies add here on R2R. I guess the kits will be available sometime after MACNA. I had heard half of Triton's price but they list the free kits as a $40 value. On the other hand it includes a separate RODI water test I could care less about. They could probably do a booming business if they offered just a tank water test for ~$25 vs. $49 for Triton.

 

[zoomonster]

Hmmm......I just checked amazon earlier when I first ordered from Amazon they were reselling it from Saltysupply but now somehow they are selling it by themselves. According to my knowledge salty supply is the only dealer in USA then how amazon is directly selling it? How they are getting them no idea....I order mine in may too but from salty supply and got ones with black cap and dropper.....

Deepwater Aquatics/Salty has Amazon selling it direct. Deepwater is the sole distributor but most retailers here have it and at least Foster&Smith, Jet and Ebay are selling it online.

 

[Anirban]

The old bottles (before they started changing product names) have black droppers. The newer stuff has white droppers. It's obvious they must have changed suppliers because the ones with white tops are mostly junk (at least the ones with nipples on top). I have a couple that will only pick up a few drops or squirt when you try to dose a drop. Never had one rip though. Other than that good stuff and I'm quite happy with what I use which is coral a, coral v, coral e, pro bio s and np pro. Soon just the a/v/e as my bio pellets kick in and may periodically add pro bio s. The e may go also and may just use kz coral snow again. Pretty sure its major benefit is raising alk which I don't need/want and it probably has some benefit like coral snow. Overall sand bed has never looked better and my corals that were somewhat stalled from previous alk issues have all colored up and started growing again.

I heard rumors a while back they were going to do water testing (in the US) and take on Triton and I see they announced it as part of a MACNA freebies add here on R2R. I guess the kits will be available sometime after MACNA. I had heard half of Triton's price but they list the free kits as a $40 value. On the other hand it includes a separate RODI water test I could care less about. They could probably do a booming business if they offered just a tank water test for ~$25 vs. $49 for Triton.

Where did you get your bottles from?

I think you are talking about AF build(B) not energy (E) right? E is the food and B is the chalky thing.

 

[Anirban]

Deepwater Aquatics/Salty has Amazon selling it direct. Deepwater is the sole distributor but most retailers here have it and at least Foster&Smith, Jet and Ebay are selling it online.

Right now salty selling it but amazon somehow is getting it too and selling it direct. But AF website says salty is the only USA dealer.

 

[zoomonster]

Mine all came from LFS but I think most of the old stock has been gone. Its been a while since they changed product names. Yeah was talking about B.

 

[Anirban]

Mine all came from LFS but I think most of the old stock has been gone. Its been a while since they changed product names. Yeah was talking about B.

I don't know about the exact batch but mine last stock which came from Salty last week labeled Build and Energy with expiry of 2018 but the cap is black with black dropper.....interesting.

 

[jeremy.gosnell]

I've gotten all of mine from Drs. Foster and Smith (Petco really, these days) and everything I've gotten has been white tipped dropper bottles. It's rare that I am impressed enough with a product to take the time to write an article about it and find few, if any flaws. I'm just highly critical, which might be a side effect of being in this hobby for 20 years or so. The whole AF approach impresses me, take something proven (zeolite media) and make it easier for the average aquarist to use. KZ's zeovit system is a powerful tool, but it also carries with it a lot of risks and is very confusing for first time users. So confusing in fact that I imagine it's off-putting and I know aquarists I've recommended zeovit too aren't impressed with the amount of reading material and fine print. The probiotic reef salt is ingenious in my view, as it takes a fairly tedious task (dosing of bacteria) and rolls it into a common reef tank chore that most of us already do. It's a very streamlined way of using zeolite and I can't directly say it comes with less risks, but the simpler approach (and better overall instructions) certainly helps.

I've personally favored microbial denitrification over all other methods. I've tried them all at this point: algae scrubbers, insanely large refugiums (some 50% or more of the tank volume), miracle mud systems, cheato reactors (home made long before Pax Bellum) and none performed like microbial denitrification. What the moderate or advanced aquarist needs to understand is that if you implement a methodology like AF's correctly, you can achieve the results you see in the pictures (such as in the AF forum in the vendors area). It takes time and tinkering, but it certainly is possible. I've been doing things with coral growth and coloration since becoming a zeolite user, that I only read about before. I was glad to see a company progressing that system and even more pleased to see that it was well-executed.

 

[Squamosa]

It's not the blue bottles, droppers and lack of snazzy marketing I have issue with, it's the omission of the constituents in those bottles that took me away from the zeovit range and any other product following the same path.

Full disclosure of ingredients is what's called for today!

 

[JasReef]

Either way you look at it, blue bottles or beautifully packaged brown bottles, it takes time, commitment and a good chunk of change to get these systems started. I have only been in the hobby a couple of years but I understand the fundamentals and KZ was not a difficult system at all to implement. If an aquarist doesn't like the amount of reading material associated with KZ then I would question how committed they are to the hobby in general. The amount of reading I have done on the hobby dwarfs what I have read about KZ. I have found that it is easy to maintain without increasing my time with the tank and my corals have exploded with growth.

I am a fan of the Zeo method but not a shill for KZ, I just don't understand all the misconceptions behind the system. I just had this talk with an experienced reefer at a frag swap and I was surprised how much he judged the system yet knew little about it.

I agree 100% that microbial denitrification is the way to go.

I had great success with AF in my softy tank before the caps did what they did, I can't shake them anymore so I stopped using it.

 

[jeremy.gosnell]

It's not the blue bottles, droppers and lack of snazzy marketing I have issue with, it's the omission of the constituents in those bottles that took me away from the zeovit range and any other product following the same path.

Full disclosure of ingredients is what's called for today!

I am curious what full disclosure you're looking for? The specific material used in the zeolite? The specific microbes in each of the bacteria blends? Exactly what is being used as a carbon source? Having used both system, both performed quite well and I've written about the ZV method for other publications quite extensively. I've used zeovit for about as long as it's been popular (or available) in the U.S. Did you experience a great deal if dissatisfaction with ZV or AF's products, or did you have a very negative experience? It's very easy to learn what zeolite material is made of, as there are only a handful of zeolite materials offered on the market and each as specific uses. For example, the way zeolite is used in a reef tank (or in a ZV or AF product) isn't the same way it's used in cat litter or small animal bedding. I am not sure what disclosure you're looking for or what makes you think there is something being hidden from aquarists.

 

[Anirban]

I am curious what full disclosure you're looking for? The specific material used in the zeolite? The specific microbes in each of the bacteria blends? Exactly what is being used as a carbon source? Having used both system, both performed quite well and I've written about the ZV method for other publications quite extensively. I've used zeovit for about as long as it's been popular (or available) in the U.S. Did you experience a great deal if dissatisfaction with ZV or AF's products, or did you have a very negative experience? It's very easy to learn what zeolite material is made of, as there are only a handful of zeolite materials offered on the market and each as specific uses. For example, the way zeolite is used in a reef tank (or in a ZV or AF product) isn't the same way it's used in cat litter or small animal bedding. I am not sure what disclosure you're looking for or what makes you think there is something being hidden from aquarists.

I think he is talking about ingredients of products like Pohls extra, A balance, B balance etc. A lot of people complain about them not disclosing the ingredients in their bottles but I think its the same for AF too. Do we know what they are exactly using in their food or build or other stuffs.No.

 

[jeremy.gosnell]

I think he is talking about ingredients of products like Pohls extra, A balance, B balance etc. A lot of people complain about them not disclosing the ingredients in their bottles but I think its the same for AF too. Do we know what they are exactly using in their food or build or other stuffs.No.

I would have to double check, but I think that AF does disclose the bacterial strains they use on their bacterial boosters. I'm at my office, so I don't have a bottle in front of me. I agree that disclosure of what is in aquarium additives of all types would be wonderful, yet I don't think we will ever see it. From what I understand, things like face wash, toothpaste, lotion, etc have to disclose what's in them because they can cause allergic reaction or medical concerns. The only way to protect everyone is to allow people to pick up the container and read what's inside the product and not use it, if it contains something they know they are allergic too.

While in many ways, aquarists have those same concerns, in that we don't want to put something into our aquarium water that could cause problems for specific organisms, the commerce regulations don't support that and the food and drug administration is absent in regulating aquarium additives. This is a double-edged sword. While that type of regulation would be nice, as it would require aquatics companies to fully disclose the contents of their products, it would also mean that boutique aquarium aquatics companies like AF would be held to the same standards as Johnson&Johnson, Unilever and other corporations. They wouldn't be able to afford it, as the process of FDA inspection and certification often costs millions and millions per single product marketed and sold. AF likely couldn't afford to do it, or if they could afford it, they would only sell one or two additives, as they would need clearance for every specific product. Luckily many botanicals, such as incense and natural fragrances also can avoid FDA disclosure and certification, or their producers couldn't afford to bring them to market either.

 

[Graffiti Spot]

I like the AF system so far. But I am very confused on why they say the zeolites do not need to be shaken. I would say shaking zeolites is one of the ways to keep the material working well. I have to shake them or bacterial buildup becomes too much. Especially in a reactor with gfo and carbon, doesn't work for me.
I like how aquaforests copper sulphate additive is very mild. I do wish they would make bigger bottels for us that have 300+ gallon tanks!
I have not tried the probiotic salt because I have leftover water in my water change system after a change.
If your careful with the droppers they won't break. Don't over tighten or use the dropper to open. Zeovit has much better quality bottles by far imo.

AF states what's in most of their bottles except the ones that are their own named cocktail like build. This is the reason I tried it as well.

 

[Squamosa]

While in many ways, aquarists have those same concerns, in that we don't want to put something into our aquarium water that could cause problems for specific organisms, the commerce regulations don't support that and the food and drug administration is absent in regulating aquarium additives. This is a double-edged sword. While that type of regulation would be nice, as it would require aquatics companies to fully disclose the contents of their products, it would also mean that boutique aquarium aquatics companies like AF would be held to the same standards as Johnson&Johnson, Unilever and other corporations. They wouldn't be able to afford it, as the process of FDA inspection and certification often costs millions and millions per single product marketed and sold. AF likely couldn't afford to do it, or if they could afford it, they would only sell one or two additives, as they would need clearance for every specific product. Luckily many botanicals, such as incense and natural fragrances also can avoid FDA disclosure and certification, or their producers couldn't afford to bring them to market either.

I'm sorry, but what a lot of bunk!

I want to know exactly what ingredients are in this bottle and others like it, I don't need dilutions, percentages or otherwise, just the ingredients and their purity!

I make my own iron supplement and show an image here with full ingredient disclosure, not difficult for the others to do also, I'm sure.

I have looked at the full range of Af products and do note that they include many, if not most of the active ingredients in their various supplements.

 

[Graffiti Spot]

Yea they do state most ingredients which is very nice.

I noticed that their zeo mix used to look like the exact same mix that zeovit uses. Last box I got it was smaller round shaped pieces and all the same color.