Is bottled bacteria needed

[Jdadams]

I’m setting up a new 20gal IM drop off tank. I put rock and half the water from my old tank in the new tank and put all new live sand in. Should I still throw a bottle of bacteria in or should I be good to go with transferring my fish and coral?

 

[brandon429]

we would not use it in this case. rocks have all you need, adding more isn't insurance its unneeded oxygen competition. in addition we have it tested: a fifty page tank transfer thread doing your job above for years and we specifically refuse bottle bac there all pages.

of course it doesnt hurt to add some, but we're making someone else's vette payment if we reactively add bottle bac in times its well proven not to benefit, that's my stance. that the bac sellers have us thinking cycles do unpredictable things, when they do not.

 

[brandon429]

also if helps: this arrangement above is how they set up reef conventions. they part out tanks, bring in ready rocks in styrofoam, and set everything up. it doesnt have an expiry date...they transfer unsold materials back home as skip cycle runs just the same.


they sell bottle bac, they dont actually use it in setup unless they're demoing a dry start. that's the hidden sales angle for reef conventions heh the sellers do not need it

the buyers do. in all cycles, regardless of rock origin~

 

[nereefpat]

How big was the old tank?

I agree it's most likely not needed

 

[Hurricane Aquatics]

I disagree, it absolutely can't hurt and can only help.

 

[brandon429]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/a...kip-cycle-instant-reefs-no-bottle-bac.794146/

 

[Jdadams]

How big was the old tank?

I agree it's most likely not needed

Just a jbj 28gal

 

[Rubberfrog]

also if helps: this arrangement above is how they set up reef conventions. they part out tanks, bring in ready rocks in styrofoam, and set everything up. it doesnt have an expiry date...they transfer unsold materials back home as skip cycle runs just the same.


they sell bottle bac, they dont actually use it in setup unless they're demoing a dry start. that's the hidden sales angle for reef conventions heh the sellers do not need it

the buyers do. in all cycles, regardless of rock origin~

I'm mostly in agreement with you about reef conventions. The difference is that those tanks have to stay up for a week. They don't need a diverse bioload. And there is no way they don't add bottle bac. It's cheap insurance.

There are lots of ways to waste money in an aquarium, a $20 bottle of bacteria is the least of my concerns with a new tank.

 

[Cell]

Never hurts to add some in you have it on hand, but I wouldnt go make a new purchase.

 

[GHOSTLY]

You could use 1lb of live rock but is cheaper to buy bottled bacteria

 

[LRT]

Not sure if there's any merit to this but I'd be suspect adding bottle bac to established healthy live rock start up tank. After reading a few papers and seeing data on how certain bacteria can actually take over and outcompete others i think id leave well enough alone and let nature take it course.
Watch your params like you normally would in your healthy liverock tank. Keep stable to best of your ability. And don't be surprised if your tank takes off using alk, cal, mag like crazy out of the gate. Trick is you want to run new tank as tight as possible to established tank coming out of the ground. This way it hardly skips a beat.

 

[Hurricane Aquatics]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/a...kip-cycle-instant-reefs-no-bottle-bac.794146/

You're arguing like it's a guaranteed thing that because you add live rock, it cycles. No, it's not. I have seen plenty of tanks not cycle with established rock. Depends on the bioload, etc.

My lord, what's a bottle of $20.00 bacteria? Some cheap people in this world......

 

[brandon429]

the link above, #6 is crucial proofing of all claims, if any of those reefs aren't diverse and are expired then we have something.

you are wasting 20$ easily Hurricane, you're the ideal attendee for a reef convention.

For example, you say you have seen it not work, but link it

show a bad tank transfer that omitted bottle bac. I'm thinking you haven't ever seen the example

 

[Alaeriel]

I think its more of a peace-of-mind thing if you have truly established rock.

 

[brandon429]

yes and its a ripoff, its handing 20$ to someone unneeded.

its not a ripoff when dealing with dry rocks as a start and wanting to carry fish before those rocks would cycle free of charge, no bottle bac added, were waiting 4 months for an unassisted cycle an option.

bottle bac sellers have made us think only their product makes for safe reefing.


https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/official-sand-rinse-and-tank-transfer-thread.230281/
there's fifty pages of tank transfers no bottle bac. that's exactly the OP's move here but for six years tracked out. bottle bac is actively excluded, to test claims made above.

we aren't dealing in things that require reinforcement. bottle bac is for initial cycling only.

 

[Hurricane Aquatics]

yes and its a ripoff, its handing 20$ to someone unneeded.

its not a ripoff when dealing with dry rocks as a start and wanting to carry fish before those rocks would cycle free of charge, no bottle bac added, were waiting 4 months for an unassisted cycle an option.

bottle bac sellers have made us think only their product makes for safe reefing.


https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/official-sand-rinse-and-tank-transfer-thread.230281/
there's fifty pages of tank transfers no bottle bac.

we aren't dealing in things that require reinforcement. bottle bac is for initial cycling only.

Here we go again with someone trying to budget reef....

Only for initial cycling?? I had a laugh at that.

I guess that's why Dr. Tim, Fritz and countless others, Vibrant included, have bottled bacteria to clean tanks and algae?

Don't bother to respond, my limit for suffering fools is up today.

 

[brandon429]

team don't think bacteria arguments are just jerk moding

we are all posting about a million plus dollar industry that created and sustained a false need/sold by peers marketing approach its amazing and powerful to discuss it


and test applications where its never needed, such as in the exact work examples folks are trained to use it.

any way you slice it, the sampled public shows you do not need bottle bac for the very actions you're claiming its beneficial Hurricane, you're part of the buying network. those above are work threads, test out some claims in reefs and if you find starkly different outcomes I'll be the first to study them.

bottle bac are legit for dry rock starts, I've bought it and used it before.

bottle bac is illegit for preventing cycles or dealing with stuck cycles, no cycles in reefing are stuck that's the direct misleading from the bottle makers filtering down to us. The op is dealing with live rock transfer, its the most solid undebated by sellers activity that exists in reefing.

doubts here aren't rare or new; they're in perfect market position as designed.

 

[LRT]

You're arguing like it's a guaranteed thing that because you add live rock, it cycles. No, it's not. I have seen plenty of tanks not cycle with established rock. Depends on the bioload, etc.

My lord, what's a bottle of $20.00 bacteria? Some cheap people in this world......

It probably does depend on alot. Amount of liverock used vs bioload introduced etc.
I'm curious what failed in your tanks started up this way? Purely for discussion sake and to gather more data of course.
I just instacycled 2x 80 gallon tanks using 1lb/gallon ratio of rock from old healthy established system during full system upgrade. I actually loaded the 1st one with over a 100 corals and 2 fish in less than 24hrs. Basicly after initial ammonia spike that honestly didn't go higher than .006 and last more than hr or 2 the first cpl times I fed the critters during first 24hrs.
Done right it can be extremely successful. Thats how they are able to set up tanks at frag swaps and one of my lfs does this regularly when expecting big shipments of corals.
Biggest thing I've found is keeping params locked down tight to healthy system params rock was taken from.

 

[aSaltyKlown]

You're arguing like it's a guaranteed thing that because you add live rock, it cycles. No, it's not. I have seen plenty of tanks not cycle with established rock. Depends on the bioload, etc.

My lord, what's a bottle of $20.00 bacteria? Some cheap people in this world......

Why would you need to cycle an already cycled rock? It's going into a smaller tank. There is no way it uncycles, unless the rock is left out of water for an extended amount of time or some other event to kill the bac on the old rock. I could see a scenario where seeding 15lbs of dry with 1lb of live rock, but in the OP's case, the bottled bac is not needed.

 

[ChaosAquaculture]

I would watch your parameters. Since you have a small tank, it might not hold the cycle stable. If anything, add a half or a quarter of whats supposed to be dosed as to avoid outcompeting and or the cycle crashing. My personal favorite is Dr Tims all in one - kali