Is GFCI enough?

[adobo]

I remember seeing a thread somewhere in the interwebs that someone lost a tank (and wound up unconscious) due to electricity leaking into their tank. I think the person woke up in the middle of the night to the sound of splashing water (maybe a clogged overflow) which lead to electronics getting drenched and water all over the floor. When the person walked into the room to see what was going on, he stepped into a puddle, was thrown across the room due to electric shock and woke up being tended to either in an ambulance or in the hospital.

The person seemed to be an experienced aquarist. Though his account of the mishap did not definitively say whether he had or did not have a GFCI, I assume that anyone who is in the hobby long enough eventually figures out that water and electricity do not play nice with each other.

So my question is, is installing a GFCI on the outlet you plug your aquarium equipment into sufficient or is there still a more than remote chance of being shocked for some reason you have a flood?

 

[redfishbluefish]

I'm going to guess it's a GFCI along with a grounding probe.....but let me have an expert comment..... @Brew12

 

[Brew12]

If the flood is bad enough you could still potentially get shocked, but you would have to have water either up to, or spraying into, your outlet.
I run my system on two GFCI's so that if one trips I still have at least some flow (which provides oxygen). If I do have one trip, my tank would be fine for at least 8 to 10 hours.
By adding a ground probe, it causes a GFCI to trip as soon as a piece of equipment fails instead of waiting for you to put your hand in the tank. Failed electrical equipment can leach copper and toxins into your system. The GFCI/ground probe combination is great for early detection.

 

[Miller535]

If the flood is bad enough you could still potentially get shocked, but you would have to have water either up to, or spraying into, your outlet.
I run my system on two GFCI's so that if one trips I still have at least some flow (which provides oxygen). If I do have one trip, my tank would be fine for at least 8 to 10 hours.
By adding a ground probe, it causes a GFCI to trip as soon as a piece of equipment fails instead of waiting for you to put your hand in the tank. Failed electrical equipment can leach copper and toxins into your system. The GFCI/ground probe combination is great for early detection.

Yep. Both. Especially the grounding probe. Chances of electricity getting into the water from failed equipment if you are in the hobby long enough are pretty good. I met a guy several years ago on a FB fish group who had a large heater break (a few hundred watts if I remember correctly), he did not know it and stuck his hand in his sump to do some maintenance. He said he woke up several hours later laying on his floor.

 

[infinite0180]

If the flood is bad enough you could still potentially get shocked, but you would have to have water either up to, or spraying into, your outlet.
I run my system on two GFCI's so that if one trips I still have at least some flow (which provides oxygen). If I do have one trip, my tank would be fine for at least 8 to 10 hours.
By adding a ground probe, it causes a GFCI to trip as soon as a piece of equipment fails instead of waiting for you to put your hand in the tank. Failed electrical equipment can leach copper and toxins into your system. The GFCI/ground probe combination is great for early detection.

Just adding that we confirmed the new BRS titanium heaters do indeed function as a grounding probe, right? As well some of the other brands too, right?

 

[adobo]

Is a grounding probe to the sump sufficient or is one needed in the tank also?

 

[Richard ML]

Just adding that we confirmed the new BRS titanium heaters do indeed function as a grounding probe, right? As well some of the other brands too, right?

It looks like it has a ground on the plug, and with the body being conductive, it would indeed function as a grounding probe.

That would go for anything conductive and grounded in your tank as well, but I can't think of much else other than a heater that would fit the bill.

 

[slojim]

I had a powerhead fail in my mixing station - the seal went bad. I found it the next morning. The water was tinted black. The wires were badly corroded/damaged. I picked it up out of the water by the cord, so I never reached into the bucket that day. While I think it is great that the titanium heaters are grounded, I prefer a stand-alone ground.
I suppose based on my story, I should think about picking one up for a mixing bucket - a small container of water that usually doesn't have the best, newest powerhead or heater. Or better yet, just keep stirring with a spoon.

 

[Miller535]

Just adding that we confirmed the new BRS titanium heaters do indeed function as a grounding probe, right? As well some of the other brands too, right?

No, they do not.

 

[Miller535]

It looks like it has a ground on the plug, and with the body being conductive, it would indeed function as a grounding probe.

That would go for anything conductive and grounded in your tank as well, but I can't think of much else other than a heater that would fit the bill.

That is not true at all.

 

[Miller535]

While a titanium heater is likely grounded to it's case, and may offer a slight grounding. But a few things, any titanium heater I have ever had including the BRS has a very rough surface on it. This surface makes it pretty much impossible to clean it well as calcium and other things build up on it. What happens when the heater fails? Which it will, there goes your ground. A proper grounding probe should be STAND ALONE. Meaning it should not be relying on the ground of another device like a heater. A proper grounding probe is also made of smooth titanium and easy to clean (and must be cleaned often). A grounding probe is only as effective as it is conductive. And a proper grounding probe can be bought for $15.DO NOT risk your safety or your tank over a $15 item.

I have worked in the electronics field for 20 years now. We ground things all the time, for both the safety of the equipment, and the safety of those of us using the equipment. A grounding probe MUST be stand alone.

 

[infinite0180]

While a titanium heater is likely grounded to it's case, and may offer a slight grounding. But a few things, any titanium heater I have ever had including the BRS has a very rough surface on it. This surface makes it pretty much impossible to clean it well as calcium and other things build up on it. What happens when the heater fails? Which it will, there goes your ground. A proper grounding probe should be STAND ALONE. Meaning it should not be relying on the ground of another device like a heater. A proper grounding probe is also made of smooth titanium and easy to clean (and must be cleaned often). A grounding probe is only as effective as it is conductive. And a proper grounding probe can be bought for $15.DO NOT risk your safety or your tank over a $15 item.

I have worked in the electronics field for 20 years now. We ground things all the time, for both the safety of the equipment, and the safety of those of us using the equipment. A grounding probe MUST be stand alone.

Good to know, i actually have a proper stand alone grounding probe, as well as two titanium heaters. Thanks for the heads up as i was considering removing it to free up an extra cord!

 

[Trever]

So is it better to get a grounding probe, and skip the GFCI (I live in a house that doesn't have grounded plugs)?

 

[infinite0180]

So is it better to get a grounding probe, and skip the GFCI (I live in a house that doesn't have grounded plugs)?

No, do not skip a gfci. And DO add a grounding probe in conjunction!

 

[Miller535]

So is it better to get a grounding probe, and skip the GFCI (I live in a house that doesn't have grounded plugs)?

The GFCI should not be skipped either. I am guessing your home has knob and tube wiring (outlet plugs with only two prongs). I do not think a GFCI needs the extra ground wire to trip, but I am not sure. My experience is with electronics, not as an electrician so I am not sure. Maybe someone with more electrician experience can step in.

 

[Trever]

Can I install a GFCI outlet in house with no third (grounding) wire? I keep seeing conflicting answers to this.

I have begun to suspect the anti-arcing (forgot acronym) requires 3 wire, but GFCI does not. I dunno.

 

[joec]

Do grounding probes ever need to be replaced, do they go bad?

 

[Miller535]

Do grounding probes ever need to be replaced, do they go bad?

They do not necessarily go bad per say. But as I said earlier they only work when they can be conductive which requires them to be clean. Which requires them to be cleaned often. If you start to have a build up on them that you can not clean off, then it would be time to replace it. With that said, I have one that is about 7 years old.

 

[kasso187]

I recently put in a GFCI/AFCI combo outlet with a titanium ground probe. Every outlet downstream, which happens to be all the others in the tank room, are also protected now.

 

[adobo]

So is it better to get a grounding probe, and skip the GFCI (I live in a house that doesn't have grounded plugs)?

Looking at pictures of grounding probes, the other end plugs into a 3 hole socket. That third hole is the ground. In fact, the other two holes (or really, slots) are plastic and only serve to keep the plug in place. If your electrical sockets do not have the third hole, the grounding probe's plug won't plug into your socket.

There may be 2 hole (or actually, 2 slot) variations of these plugs for grounding probes wherein the ground is basically a loop that gets screwed into your wall plate (presumably, the screw goes all the way to the electrical box which in turn would be grounded. But if your house does not have ground to the outlets then basically, the ground for the probe goes absolutely nowhere.

I'm not sure if you can use a GFCI on non-grounded outlets. In any case, I would be incredibly cautious about keeping an aquarium unless you have some safety measures in place in case there is electricity leaked into your tank.