Is lava rock reef-safe?

[Fish Fan]

Not familiar with this particular brand.

Aqua soil is kind of a generic term used in the planted tank community. Most of these soils are some blend of clay ceramics, volcanic ash, and crushed volcanic stone (don't tell Randy his head might explode).

Yes, Aqua-Soil is a generic term, and includes brands such as Fluval Stratum, ADA's Amazonia Aqua-Soil, and others. These are the substrate most serious planted tanks use, though there are other choices too. But I think when you're seeing all these amazing planted and shrimp tanks, you're seeing Aqua-Soil, not lava rock. It's a very, very popular choice for freshwater tanks, and I could see how it could be mistaken for lava rock.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Yet you've not backed up your "too much risk" with much (if any?) qualitative data.

Be the scientist here...

Not sure what sort of data you want?

Corals and some other marine inverts are very sensitive to certain heavy metals:

Uptake and partitioning of copper and cadmium in the coral Pocillopora damicornis​

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0166445X07002962
Fragments of Pocillopora damicornis were exposed in the laboratory to cadmium (Cd) or copper (Cu) chlorides (0, 5, 50 μg l−1) for 14 days and analyzed for metal content in the whole association, algal or animal fractions.
...

Our results demonstrate the accumulation of Cd and Cu in P. damicornis and mortality in the absence of a bleaching response.


Lava can release those very same heavy metals:

Chemical speciation and potential ecological risk assessment of heavy metals in volcanic rocks of Southern Qinghai, China
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02757540.2019.1640686

Seven volcanic rocks samples were collected from Southern Qinghai to analyze chemical speciation and migration behavior of heavy metals by sequential chemical extraction procedure and column leaching test.

...

Cd contributed to most of ecological risk while the remaining heavy metals (except As) exerted medium to high risks to the environment according to the risk assessment code evaluation results. In summary, volcanic rocks possessed potential risks to the surroundings due to potential release of heavy metals. Cd that caused the pollution should be paid special attention.

 

[BeanAnimal]

One example: How many bad batches of salt did TM salt make years ago; was that safe? And yet "bazillions" of people use TM salt to this very day.

Maybe you should include the "IMO" with respect to black sand considering many vendors sell it specifically for reefing applications.

Words matter

They certainly do.

You’re contradicting your own arguments and logic.

You first argued that black sand should be presumed safe because vendors sell it specifically for reefing and many people use it. Extending the logic to "lava rock" and reefs via freshwater use. At the same time you offer TM salt as an example of a product sold specifically for reefing, trusted by “bazillions” of people, yet still capable of being unsafe.

You cannot use mass acceptance and an aquarium label as evidence of safety in one argument, then use the failure of a widely accepted aquarium product to demonstrate that neither guarantees safety in the next.

 

[Dread Pirate Dave]

I like peanuts.

 

[commod0re]

Well,

Maybe you should include the "IMO" with respect to black sand considering many vendors sell it specifically for reefing applications.

Additionally, companies like ADA make some of the finest substrates in the world using volcanic rock and volcanic ash.

And isn't zeolite made from volcanic rock and ash too?

My only suggestion to the OP was to not use some rock from some gardening center from some big box store. No telling whats in that stuff

Aqua Design Amano is heavily focused on the iwagumi-style planted freshwater aquaria that founder Takeshi Amano popularized. Strictly speaking it is not accurate to imply that they market their substrates as safe/appropriate for use in reef tanks.

Fresh and saltwater denizens are very different in enough ways that you cannot blindly extrapolate freshwater guidance into saltwater/reef guidance.

Different vendors’ black sands are also different. Some might truly be inert and thus could be considered safe but it’s far from a guarantee

 

[Bear22]

Yes, Aqua-Soil is a generic term, and includes brands such as Fluval Stratum, ADA's Amazonia Aqua-Soil, and others. These are the substrate most serious planted tanks use, though there are other choices too. But I think when you're seeing all these amazing planted and shrimp tanks, you're seeing Aqua-Soil, not lava rock. It's a very, very popular choice for freshwater tanks, and I could see how it could be mistaken for lava rock.

Sigh,

I don't know how to make it any clearer. These fertilizing aqua soils (ADA, UNS, Dennerle, etc.) main constituent components are ceramic clays, volcanic ash, and crushed lava rock. I can't tell you the exact the ingredients because they are proprietary many of them.

This info., is well known in the planted tank world and these substrates aren't new. Some of them have been around for decades.

Additionally, many aquascapers - planted tank enthusiasts will layer (stratify) their system with aquasoil (and/or sand) and cap that over crushed lava rock.

I think some of you guys in this thread are just being contrarian as opposed to being objective. And if so, doesn't really surprise me much all that much.

 

[Bear22]

Aqua Design Amano is heavily focused on the iwagumi-style planted freshwater aquaria that founder Takeshi Amano popularized. Strictly speaking it is not accurate to imply that they market their substrates as safe/appropriate for use in reef tanks.

Fresh and saltwater denizens are very different in enough ways that you cannot blindly extrapolate freshwater guidance into saltwater/reef guidance.

Different vendors’ black sands are also different. Some might truly be inert and thus could be considered safe but it’s far from a guarantee

What part of YMMV did you not understand?

Additionally, if it came from a reputable source with a known track record in terms of QC; I wouldn't be opposed to placing lava rock in one of my canister filter trays.

I wouldn't bat an eye.

 

[Fish Fan]

These fertilizing aqua soils (ADA, UNS, Dennerle, etc.) main constituent components are ceramic clays, volcanic ash, and crushed lava rock.

I do not disagree that they incorporate some volcanic ash, but the major constituent is compressed organics. A simple Google search reveals this:

"Aqua soil is made of natural organic earth, volcanic ash, or clay that is mixed with nutrients and baked or sintered into porous granules. Main Ingredients Natural Earth & Mountain Soil: Many commercial brands, such as ADA Amazonia, use nutrient-rich natural black soils or earth mined from specific regions. Clay and Volcanic Minerals: These elements provide structure and a high surface area. Humate / Organic Matter: Some soils include a concentrated humate base filled with organic compounds that help soften water and lower pH."

 

[commod0re]

What part of YMMV did you not understand?

Additionally, if it came from a reputable source with a known track record in terms of QC; I wouldn't be opposed to placing lava rock in one of my canister filter trays.

I wouldn't bat an eye.

You seem really invested in arguing about this for some reason but you’re doing this thing where, instead of backing up anything you say with verifiable information, you instead insinuate that the person you’re responding to is not as smart as you are

This is a sign that you don’t have any real information and are here to argue simply because you have strong feelings about it and nothing else

I highly suggest you go outside and spend some quality time touching grass

 

[Bear22]

I do not disagree that they incorporate some volcanic ash, but the major constituent is compressed organics. A simple Google search reveals this:

"Aqua soil is made of natural organic earth, volcanic ash, or clay that is mixed with nutrients and baked or sintered into porous granules. Main Ingredients Natural Earth & Mountain Soil: Many commercial brands, such as ADA Amazonia, use nutrient-rich natural black soils or earth mined from specific regions. Clay and Volcanic Minerals: These elements provide structure and a high surface area. Humate / Organic Matter: Some soils include a concentrated humate base filled with organic compounds that help soften water and lower pH."

Here's one for ya to chew on Fish:

As part of my career I was based/lived in the Pacific. I was lucky/privileged to visit a number of tropical islands to dive and snorkel reefs. Many times, I did so right from the beach. Guess what? Many of these areas weren't picture perfect sandy beaches you see on some Expedia vacation advertisement, but rather they were comprised of lava rock. Case and point: The reefs on the southern 1/3 of Guam are almost entirely situated off lava rock beaches.

Many of these islands out on the WESTPAC and southern Pacific have runways that are built up from a foundation of lava rocks. Also, many of these runways sub surfaces are right next to the water if not partially in the water.

Things that make you go hmmmmm.

 

[Bear22]

You seem really invested in arguing about this for some reason but you’re doing this thing where, instead of backing up anything you say with verifiable information, you instead insinuate that the person you’re responding to is not as smart as you are

This is a sign that you don’t have any real information and are here to argue simply because you have strong feelings about it and nothing else

I highly suggest you go outside and spend some quality time touching grass

I could say the same for you.

 

[BeanAnimal]

You seem really invested in arguing about this for some reason

I don’t even see an argument or an actual point, just wandering, combative reframes and snarky personal jabs directed at whoever replies.

All the result of twisting a simple, logical point made by Randy.

Freshwater tanks and various volcanic materials are all being conflated under “lava rock,” then somehow treated as applicable to reef tank environments through shrimp, while ignoring the vast differences in water chemistry, metal bioavailability, species sensitivity, and toxicity thresholds between freshwater and marine environments.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Here's one for ya to chew on Fish:

As part of my career I was based/lived in the Pacific. I was lucky/privileged to visit a number of tropical islands to dive and snorkel reefs. Many times, I did so right from the beach. Guess what? Many of these areas weren't picture perfect sandy beaches you see on some Expedia vacation advertisement, but rather they were comprised of lava rock. Case and point: The reefs on the southern 1/3 of Guam are almost entirely situated off lava rock beaches.

Many of these islands out on the WESTPAC and southern Pacific have runways that are built up from a foundation of lava rocks. Also, many of these runways sub surfaces are right next to the water if not partially in the water.

Things that make you go hmmmmm.

This is an appeal to nature wrapped in a false equivalence. Reefs also grow in areas exposed to runoff and raw sewage, and even on sunken steel ships containing copper and other potentially toxic materials. None of that proves unidentified “lava rock” is safe in a closed aquarium any more than it proves runoff, raw sewage, or hunks of metal are. More importantly, it does nothing to support the petty argument you aimed at Randy’s rather clear and logical comment.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Here's one for ya to chew on Fish:

As part of my career I was based/lived in the Pacific. I was lucky/privileged to visit a number of tropical islands to dive and snorkel reefs. Many times, I did so right from the beach. Guess what? Many of these areas weren't picture perfect sandy beaches you see on some Expedia vacation advertisement, but rather they were comprised of lava rock. Case and point: The reefs on the southern 1/3 of Guam are almost entirely situated off lava rock beaches.

Many of these islands out on the WESTPAC and southern Pacific have runways that are built up from a foundation of lava rocks. Also, many of these runways sub surfaces are right next to the water if not partially in the water.

Things that make you go hmmmmm.

We have discussed that issue many times and no hmmm is needed. Like metal from a corroding shipwreck, the massive volume of the ocean is very different than a small aquarium with metal in it, and some release of trace metals can be neutral to beneficial for well understood reasons of need, while further concentration increases when the volume is not huge can lead to toxic levels of metals.

 

[Bear22]

We have discussed that issue many times and no hmmm is needed. Like metal from a corroding shipwreck, the massive volume of the ocean is very different than a small aquarium with metal in it, and some release of trace metals can be neutral to beneficial for well understood reasons of need, while further concentration increases when the volume is not huge can lead to toxic levels of metals.

You still haven't explained the "metal" in lava rock with qualitative data.

"Discussing" doesn't necessarily equate to objectiveness.

Fiji mud has metal in it too and people swear by it. Or is that somehow different?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

You still haven't explained the "metal" in lava rock with qualitative data.

"Discussing" doesn't necessarily equate to objectiveness.

Fiji mud has metal in it too and people swear by it. Or is that somehow different?

I posted an article showing what leaches from volcanic rock, along with their published assessment of environmental risk. Cadmium, copper, lead, and other toxic metals.

I also showed data on coral toxicity of those metals.

Without an actual analysis of whatever batch of volcanic rocks you prefer to recommend, that sort of article is sufficient to me to satisfy the criteria of “too much risk” to put it in a reef tank. Whether it is sufficient for you, only you can decide.

 

[Fish Fan]

 

[Bear22]

I posted an article showing what leaches from volcanic rock, along with their published assessment of environmental risk. Cadmium, copper, lead, and other toxic metals.

I also showed data on coral toxicity of those metals.

Without an actual analysis of whatever batch of volcanic rocks you prefer to recommend, that sort of article is sufficient to me to satisfy the criteria of “too much risk” to put it in a reef tank. Whether it is sufficient for you, only you can decide.

So where do I find this article?

 

[Bear22]

The OP's question revolved around lava rock. Focus

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

So where do I find this article?

Post #42 of this thread