Is this Velvet or parasite? Trying to save last 3 fish..

[DieHardPhotog-Reefer]

I'm not sure what just happened so quickly, but I think it is velvet or maybe a parasite? We've already lost 50% of our fish within 36 hours. My wife and kids are really emotionally torn over this.
Based on what I read in a post by @Humblefish it could be velvet. The first fish to die last night were the Chromis (likely because they're top swimmers). The next was our Coral Beauty... this morning. Now 2 of our 3 clownfish are lethargic and look to be breathing really difficult. We never saw any signs of illness though. The chromis were very shy when we moved them from the QT to the main display. We've been treating the tank about twice a week with about 50 ml of Probiotic Marine Formula since the 1st fish was added on Jan 2 of this year. Just got a new bottle shipped recently. Added 50 ml and the color of the liquid had changed from blue to yellowish color

These are photos, postmortem, of the Coral Beauty Angelfish and 1 of the 4 dead Chromis. I can't see any evidence of velvet nor any signs of ich but according to the writeup, that could be normal. All of these fish were eating and swimming normally (as much as we knew) up to a week ago.

 

[hdsoftail1065]

Bump

 

[hdsoftail1065]

#reefsquad

 

[4FordFamily]

First of all, sorry for your losses.

You mentioned QT, what is your QT protocol? Losses that quick indicate something serious - velvet, ammonia, or some sort of contamination/poison.

What were these fish treated for, with what, for how long?

 

[brwaldbaum]

The fins on the coral beauty look partially eroded. Is that just an artifact of the photograph?

 

[DieHardPhotog-Reefer]

The fins on the coral beauty look partially eroded. Is that just an artifact of the photograph?

I'm sorry to say but I don't think so. I was at work when my wife told me that the coral beauty wasn't faltering that badly. I don't really know?

 

[cmcoker]

OK. Will do. Yes, we have 2 twenty gallon tanks that are kept for QT (each tank divided into about 2 7-8 gallon sections).

I would one up if you haven't already. So its ready to go.
Do you have any meds on hand?

 

[brwaldbaum]

There seem to be small white spots on the coral beauty as well. They could be substrate particles stuck to the slime coat or an artifact of the lighting, but perhaps they are indicative of parasitism.

 

[DieHardPhotog-Reefer]

First of all, sorry for your losses.

You mentioned QT, what is your QT protocol? Losses that quick indicate something serious - velvet, ammonia, or some sort of contamination/poison.

What were these fish treated for, with what, for how long?

After drip acclimation, the Chromis were treated with Cupramine and kept in quarantine for 30 days before moving to the main tank; however, that QT period may not have been worth much because we were doing water changes during that time and apparently didn't keep the copper levels up high enough. By the time they reach 30 days, we tested the water and it was almost 0 copper present (via Seachem's test). We had lost 3 of 7 Chromis during that time but I assumed it was because we had too many in one small 7.5 gal space.

I read that the angelfish were very sensitive to copper so we kept her in QT but only under evaluation (no Copper but treated the water every two weeks with 10 ml of Probiotic Marine Formula. She was eating and moving well the entire time before going to main tank.

 

[DieHardPhotog-Reefer]

I would one up if you haven't already. So its ready to go.
Do you have any meds on hand?

We've already setup one 7.5 gal for the paired clownfish and another 7.5 gal space for a single clownfish. We have Cupramine on hand. Just got Kanaplex this evening but have to wait until tomorrow for the Rally (Only one store in the 40 mile area carries it.)

 

[DieHardPhotog-Reefer]

There seem to be small white spots on the coral beauty as well. They could be substrate particles stuck to the slime coat or an artifact of the lighting, but perhaps they are indicative of parasitism.

I think that may have come from the sand. My wife said she found the beauty laying still in the sand and no longer breathing. She had changed colors from a deep dark purplish normal color to a more pale look overnight.

 

[ReefWeeds]

I think that may have come from the sand. My wife said she found the beauty laying still in the sand and no longer breathing. She had changed colors from a deep dark purplish normal color to a more pale look overnight.

I dealt with Brook and had a similar experience so maybe look into that.

 

[cmcoker]

Have you moved the fish yet?
While brook maybe a possibility, I'd follow the velvet protocol, since acriflavine will knock down brook as well though multiple baths would be needed for eradication.

Metronidazole is a treatment for brook, you could combine that with copper and you would be covered for both brook and velvet. I would personally wait to start the metro though, follow the velvet protocol and maybe in a couple weeks add metro to the mix.

Maybe look for some metroplex when you are picking up the acriflavine, won't hurt to have it on hand it's not very expensive.

 

[DieHardPhotog-Reefer]

Have you moved the fish yet?
While brook maybe a possibility, I'd follow the velvet protocol, since acriflavine will knock down brook as well though multiple baths would be needed for eradication.

Metronidazole is a treatment for brook, you could combine that with copper and you would be covered for both brook and velvet. I would personally wait to start the metro though, follow the velvet protocol and maybe in a couple weeks add metro to the mix.

Maybe look for some metroplex when you are picking up the acriflavine, won't hurt to have it on hand it's not very expensive.

Yes, we moved them about 7 hours ago. They're starting to show signs of a white slime coat growing on two of the clownfish.

 

[Humblefish]

Yes, we moved them about 7 hours ago. They're starting to show signs of a white slime coat growing on two of the clownfish.

Like this: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/brooklynella.247938/

Sounds like brook.

 

[DieHardPhotog-Reefer]

Like this: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/brooklynella.247938/

Sounds like brook.

Thank you so much!!! Just got home from LFS with Rally product.

Does Brook kill as quickly as velvet? We lost the 4 Chromis and the Coral Beauty within about 24-36 hours. I just want to make sure that if I'm treating these last 3 fish (all clowns) for Brook, that I am not missing the necessary steps for treating against velvet too. One more thing that my wife noticed, the fins on the clownfish look quite tattered as if they were ripped and ragged in places? I know they haven't been that way for very long.

I've got your posted message regarding Brook, if that's your recommendation, I'll gladly follow that routine because I've read enough of your articles to appreciate your knowledge.

 

[Humblefish]

Does Brook kill as quickly as velvet? We lost the 4 Chromis and the Coral Beauty within about 24-36 hours. I just want to make sure that if I'm treating these last 3 fish (all clowns) for Brook, that I am not missing the necessary steps for treating against velvet too. I've got your posted message regarding Brook, if that's your recommendation, I'll gladly follow that routine because I've read enough of your articles to appreciate your knowledge.

Brook can kill quickly, especially once the number of parasites in the water begins to increase exponentially. After all/most of the fish are dead, the parasite's "breeding ground" has been diminished and it returns to a sublethal concentration. Which can flare up again at any time whenever you add new fish (food). The only way to eliminate it from your DT is to starve it out by going fallow for at least 6 weeks. During this 6 week fishless period, any surviving fish should be treated in a quarantine tank.

 

[DieHardPhotog-Reefer]

Brook can kill quickly, especially once the number of parasites in the water begins to increase exponentially. After all/most of the fish are dead, the parasite's "breeding ground" has been diminished and it returns to a sublethal concentration. Which can flare up again at any time whenever you add new fish (food). The only way to eliminate it from your DT is to starve it out by going fallow for at least 6 weeks. During this 6 week fishless period, any surviving fish should be treated in a quarantine tank.

Thanks so much for the info. If you don't mind helping with another problem, it would be greatly appreciated.
Two of the same fish have now been FW dipped for about 3 min each before they started looking like they were dead... after we watched the video by @melypr1985 . My wife and I are super grateful for all the info you two have shared on this forum).
They have been bathed in 3 gal of heated & aerated water with 9.85 ml of RALLY for 60 min then moved to a clean 7.5 gallon QT tank with fresh saltwater. All I had available for beneficial bacteria that wasn't already infected was some Marinepure balls from a previous tank use and 10 ml of Dr. Tim's One & Only.

Unfortunately, we didn't get them into the Rally treatment before their fins and tailfins were extremely damaged. I'm guessing this is what was called "fin rot" in the list of diseases? We have two 5 gram packages of Kanaplex. Is this the next step and should it be a separate bath like the Rally or is it okay to put it in the new QT tank?

 

[cmcoker]

Kanaplex can be used in the quarantine tank. It wouldn't hurt to add metroplex to the mix. If not seeing improvement you can also add furan2. That trio is often called the "trifecta" around here because it provides a broad spectrum of antibiotics to target different types of bacteria.

The metroplex is metronidazole and I would definitely add that in if I was dealing with brook.

Do you have an ammonia alert badge? Would be good idea since you didn't have the benefit of seeded media.

Also adding something like selcon pr a vitamin supplement to the food, would help provide good nutrition for healing

 

[HotRocks]

Fish do often come down with secondary bacterial infections from parasite affliction.

Good advice above from @cmcoker