Is UV actually viable for parasite management?

[gumblue]

I am looking to set up a new tank soon, 7-8ft, soft coral dominated with plenty of big, beautiful fish.
My absolute dream is a powder blue tang, but they obviously can be quite prone to parasites.

I have tried full quarantine before, and it never really worked longterm. We live quite close to the beach, and im worried that i have contaminated my quarantined setup before, and reintroduced ich etc, but maybe my quarantine system wasn't airtight!

Anecdotally, I have seen people around me have good success with powder blues (and other ich prone fish) in 6-8ft tanks, and they almost all seem to be running oversized UV systems. I have asked a few of these reefers, and get differing opinions. Some have told me they believe no sand (less surface area for parasite cysts?) and UV was a winning combo. Not sure if the sand part makes sense to me but happy to be proven wrong.

But yeah! what do we think gang? Can properly sized UV reliably keep a tank healthy?

 

[Subsea]

“But yeah! what do we think gang? Can properly sized UV reliably keep a tank healthy?“

Of course, the answer is YES; but not by itself AND the devil is in the details.

I have a Hippo & a Sailfin tang in 25 year mature mixed reef with heavy emphases on filter feeders. While I have a large UV that is available with a portable setup that can be used on tanks as required. However, filter feeders eat free swimming microbes which includes ich.

Free-swimming ich (theronts) are the microscopic food for sponges, tunicates, flame scallops, feather dusters, spaghetti worms, anemones, sea apples, etc…

If your reef is FOWLR then bring on the UV.

 

[exnisstech]

I don't know if UV can keep a large tank healthy or not. I do not keep a powder blue mainly because I think it would disrupt the harmony I've been able to maintain with 9 tangs. I try to stay away from any tangs that are known to pace the tank constantly like some do. I do know UV isn't necessary to have a healthy tank. No fish in this tank has been QTed. I've never ran UV on this tank or the previous tank I moved from. Oldest fish is the naso coming up on 10 years and the purple close to 9. I do keep all new additions in observation for 30-45 days sometimes longer if i feel it's needed. Not trying to start a QT vs non QT discussion just saying what works for me to keep my tank healthy. I also feed 5-6 times a day.

Recent clip. The little hippo was recently added after being in observation for 11 months to grow out some. I had my first hippo for 5 years and never had ich that I'm aware of.

 

[W31Olds]

UV Systems provide other benefits such as control of Bacteria. If properly sized and with proper flow they can keep free swimmers down to some extent but will never totally rid your Tank of Ich. That's why it's called Ich Management. I think all fish can tolerate some level of Ich so if you keep it at or below that threshold with UV, why not do it.

 

[Tahoe61]

Depends on the parasite, pathogen.

 

[exnisstech]

I've also read UV can kill good things as well as bad. If this is true are the benefits worth the risk of killing beneficial stuff? Probably another hobby method that some believe in and some don't with there not being a concrete right or wrong.

 

[Tahoe61]

I've also read UV can kill good things as well as bad. If this is true are the benefits worth the risk of killing beneficial stuff? Probably another hobby method that some believe in and some don't with there not being a concrete right or wrong.

UV works by altering the reproductive abilities. Parasites and other pathogens such as bacteria are rendered sterile. All parasites, bacteria, harmless inverts MUST be directly exposed to UV. Any pathogens or harmless inverts must be in the water column for exposure. Those mentioned above must come into direct contact with the UV.

 

[Privateye]

Not all parasites are susceptible to UV, but many are. In general, whether you buy a UV for "parasites" or "algae" the technology is the same. The UV dose it imparts depends on the power of the lamp, the UV transmittance of the water (generally quite good in reef systems), and the flow rate. A slower flow rate means the microbes "sit" in front of the lamp for longer, imparting a higher dose. Too fast and they fly right through the unit without getting much of a dose. You can't just slow any unit down and expect to sterilize a microbe though - you also need to send enough water through the unit so they are sterilized faster than they reproduce.

It all comes down to information on specific microbes. Amyloodinium (marine velvet) and Cryptocaryon (marine ich) are both parasites with similar life cycles, but they need vastly different doses to sterilize them. Charts like these can be useful:

https://freshbydesign.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/UV-Dose-chart-from-Emperor-Catalogue.pdf

But there are many microbes out there that a dose has not yet been determined for. Dinoflagellates, for example.

 

[Freenow54]

I have had 2 Tangs a yellow and now a Vlamingi . I have had not parasite problems . I suggest you go to a better LFS . However there certainly are Good UV sterilizers . However as pointed out to me from someone you also kill beneficial stuff as well . As far as ick I also learned because of their life cycle you cannot eliminate them just control them. If you are going to get one learn more ie how to calculate the Dose rate

 

[NanoSteam]

It may or may not... I have ich in my tank and run UV. Not sure if it helps but I'd like to think it does. More than the UV though I attribute the overall health of my fish to their diet.

 

[Freenow54]

It may or may not... I have ich in my tank and run UV. Not sure if it helps but I'd like to think it does. More than the UV though I attribute the overall health of my fish to their diet.

Pretty vague do tell

 

[Freenow54]

I follow Paul B , and his compadre Atoll I am going to start growing white worms , and copepods . I especially like the idea of copepods that is why I want to know

 

[NanoSteam]

Pretty vague do tell

I'm assuming you're asking about the diet?

They eat 4 times a day.

4 times a week they get LRS Reef Frenzy
2 times a week they get Emerald Entree
Once a week Ocean Nutrition Angel Formula (they all love this stuff not just my Angel)
Once a day every day alternate between Spirulina Brine and Mysis
Twice a day Vitalis Marine Flakes
Twice a week the Vitalis Marine Flakes are soaked in Omega 3
Twice a week the Vitalis Marine Flakes are soaked in Brightwell Vitamarin M

I'll be adding Nori to this mix once my Tang and Foxface arrive

Now that I've written this out it sounds overkill lol.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I am looking to set up a new tank soon, 7-8ft, soft coral dominated with plenty of big, beautiful fish.
My absolute dream is a powder blue tang, but they obviously can be quite prone to parasites.

I have tried full quarantine before, and it never really worked longterm. We live quite close to the beach, and im worried that i have contaminated my quarantined setup before, and reintroduced ich etc, but maybe my quarantine system wasn't airtight!

Anecdotally, I have seen people around me have good success with powder blues (and other ich prone fish) in 6-8ft tanks, and they almost all seem to be running oversized UV systems. I have asked a few of these reefers, and get differing opinions. Some have told me they believe no sand (less surface area for parasite cysts?) and UV was a winning combo. Not sure if the sand part makes sense to me but happy to be proven wrong.

But yeah! what do we think gang? Can properly sized UV reliably keep a tank healthy?

I run UV in a 400 g and as I often mention, UV is a great safeguard and will not remove or erase protozoans once present/pre-existing but rather what passes through the channel of the unit. Due to flow rates and size of units, problems can or may occur even with unit present

 

[allenk4]

Not all parasites are susceptible to UV, but many are. In general, whether you buy a UV for "parasites" or "algae" the technology is the same. The UV dose it imparts depends on the power of the lamp, the UV transmittance of the water (generally quite good in reef systems), and the flow rate. A slower flow rate means the microbes "sit" in front of the lamp for longer, imparting a higher dose. Too fast and they fly right through the unit without getting much of a dose. You can't just slow any unit down and expect to sterilize a microbe though - you also need to send enough water through the unit so they are sterilized faster than they reproduce.

It all comes down to information on specific microbes. Amyloodinium (marine velvet) and Cryptocaryon (marine ich) are both parasites with similar life cycles, but they need vastly different doses to sterilize them. Charts like these can be useful:

https://freshbydesign.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/UV-Dose-chart-from-Emperor-Catalogue.pdf

But there are many microbes out there that a dose has not yet been determined for. Dinoflagellates, for example.

Thanks for the chart. Remember the UV dosage is cumulative. The chart operates under the assumption that the pathogen will pas thru the UV only once.

 

[Ryan15236]

I posted this in a different thread a few days ago. It’s my personal experience with UV. I have even added an acanthurus tang (convict-still don’t know if I trust a PBT) with good results

Here is my experience on this topic. I have never QTed properly

Had a 125 gallon reef 10 years ago for about 2 years. I would have occasional ich outbreaks on yellow and purple tang but nothing major. All fish could recover except I tried a powder blue tang. It was honestly rough to watch. The fish would slowly get covered more with spots and become skinnier. The fish would still eat but slowly succumb to the parasite until it passed. There was no UV on system

Out of hobby for 10 years until about 2 years ago

180 gallon reef no UV on system. Added fish. Everything going pretty well. Might see a spot of ich or flashing here and there but nothing too bad. About a 3 months in I add a Longnose butterfly and get gill flukes in my tank. Add prazipro most fish recover but lost about 3. Started adding fish again after about a month and did so until about 3 more months later then massive velvet outbreak after adding majestic angel that took 13 of my 16 fish. Only survivors were hippo tang, foxface, and longnose hawk. My tank sat this way for about 5 months. I added a UV to my system and started again. I’m about a year into running the tank like this with zero losses after UV. I have 21 fish that are fat and healthy. The system is managed

I will without a doubt never have a system without a UV sterilizer at minimum. I would love the peace of mind of not having disease present tho. This system will stay managed but there’s an upgrade in my future and decisions will have to be made

 

[hatfielj]

I definitely feel UV is important to treat and prevent pathogens. It's important to size it correctly though. I believe in oversized UV, meaning way higher wattage than what is typically recommended for your tank size. And you need to run water through it SLOWLY. I also believe in running it only intermittently. When first setting up a tank, I run it 24/7 for maybe a few months. Then I keep it turned off most of the time. Any time I add new fish to the tank, I run it for at least a few days if not a few weeks.
Now that my tank is 1 year old, I hardly ever run it. My fish are all spotless and fat, including a powder blue. I've kept achilles in perfect health in past systems using this same approach.
So, in summary: Oversize it and run it slow. You don't need to run it all the time, just with new fish or if problems pop up.
The reason I believe this approach works is because, as in nature, pathogens are always present, BUT, they are in very low concentrations. The fish can fight these pathogens with their own immune system as long as they aren't being constantly bombarded with them. The goal is to give them as low of concentration of pathogens in the water column as possible which mimics what they would be exposed to in nature. As long as you do everything else correct in terms of feeding and providing good conditions, they will have healthy immune systems capable of fighting off low levels of infection.
It's still very important to either quarantine or buy from vendors that do some degree of quarantine/pre-treatment for you. My LFS is good about pre-treating all incoming fish.

 

[Privateye]

As far as ick I also learned because of their life cycle you cannot eliminate them just control them.

Unfortunately this is a really common misconception, and it's promoted by fish stores as a means of saying "it's normal your fish got sick". They do this because the general public will blame them for illness. Sometimes they did something wrong and deserve it, but sometimes things slip through. These fish are kept at wholesalers with other fishes from around the world. They pick up all kinds of illnesses, if they didn't come in with some themselves. If the fish reaches the store, has looked fine for a week, and they sell it to you then there's still a good chance it could be harboring an illness. Even with prophylactic treatments sometimes things slip through.

So, to ease customers' tempers, they tell you all fish have ich/cryptocaryon and the only thing you can do is control it. Not true. If you understand the life cycle then you understand the vulnerable points, and there are many treatments out there. Some work better than others. But there are many hypotheticals that break the life cycle. For instance, we know leaving the tank fallow will starve it out. We know that if we take a molly from freshwater, acclimate it to saltwater, and put it in a tank with no other fish then it's not possible for cryptocaryon to be present. We know various chemical methods work, hyposalinity, etc.

Heck, with freshwater ich you just raise the temp to 84 degrees and add 3ppt of salt. If you undo those things after two months ich isn't going to come back without a new introduction. You've kept it in conditions where ich could not survive. Just like other organisms, there are certainly conditions where these pathogens cannot survive. Stores can't always offer those conditions though.

 

[PPBlimpy]

My 265g system has ich, I run a 57w UV, in my experience and in practice it helps manage the ich maybe?

Uv is on the return after a T so half the flow goes thru.

I have 7 Tangs currently. I had a powder brown in my previous system and a gold rim in this tank but unfortunately it passed. I will be adding either another powder brown or gold rim soon.

The only time I see signs of ich is when a new fish is added, I will find a couple spots show up on my purple tang and my blue hippo. Then within a day they are gone.

This is why I say I manage it. I do not quarantine.

May be a old reef tale but it makes me feel better but I do ad garlic powder and ginger powder to their frozen food as it thaws. Figure it doesn't hurt to help getting the new fish to eat also.

I am pretty sure when I get home tonight I will see some on those two tangs minimum as I added 3 fish to the DT last night, a Tomini tang, Flame angel and a engineer goby. As a preventive measure when adding new fish I reduce the flow from the return to 50%.

so far so good. Have not lost any fish to ich.

 

[Freenow54]

Unfortunately this is a really common misconception, and it's promoted by fish stores as a means of saying "it's normal your fish got sick". They do this because the general public will blame them for illness. Sometimes they did something wrong and deserve it, but sometimes things slip through. These fish are kept at wholesalers with other fishes from around the world. They pick up all kinds of illnesses, if they didn't come in with some themselves. If the fish reaches the store, has looked fine for a week, and they sell it to you then there's still a good chance it could be harboring an illness. Even with prophylactic treatments sometimes things slip through.

So, to ease customers' tempers, they tell you all fish have ich/cryptocaryon and the only thing you can do is control it. Not true. If you understand the life cycle then you understand the vulnerable points, and there are many treatments out there. Some work better than others. But there are many hypotheticals that break the life cycle. For instance, we know leaving the tank fallow will starve it out. We know that if we take a molly from freshwater, acclimate it to saltwater, and put it in a tank with no other fish then it's not possible for cryptocaryon to be present. We know various chemical methods work, hyposalinity, etc.

Heck, with freshwater ich you just raise the temp to 84 degrees and add 3ppt of salt. If you undo those things after two months ich isn't going to come back without a new introduction. You've kept it in conditions where ich could not survive. Just like other organisms, there are certainly conditions where these pathogens cannot survive. Stores can't always offer those conditions though.

I did not say that at all. I read it from other people here not Facebook. IF IF your fish gets sick with it and it alone which was the question from the poster that expecting a UV Sterilizer may disappoint them . The decision is Ultimately on them . to do their own research then decide . The people that responded on other posts, are not just run of the mill people either . My fish have yet to get anything and one is over 30. Just passing along things I cant help but believe what they say. When I state something I also research it , as best as anyone can . I never say" We Know " either