Is UV actually viable for parasite management?

[vlangel]

I won a beautiful acclimation Tank . I cannot wrap my head around its purpose as it is still in the same water as the other fish so how does it prevent spreading disease if it is sick ?

Mine is in the cabinet but its not the same water. I put it there because I was thinking of maybe using a sump but then I chose a canister filter to keep everything simple. My 20g is a high tank so it can't come out of the cabinet except in pieces, LOL. Its a stand alone system. I had been using it for a clownfish that a friend gave me since I already had a mature clownfish and did not want one of them to kill the other. Unfortunately my clown is one that died of disease 3 wks ago so I moved the other clown into the 75g. That's when I decided that I would use this 20g as an observation QT. That way if new fish have disease that manifests itself 2 weeks after purchase, I will know before they go into the main display tank.
Before this last incident, I used a baby net in the display to acclimated new fish. It of course did share water so new fish could bring disease in. However, i already assumed that there was disease in my display but that it was managed. And I had hoped that by keeping fish in the baby net that I was giving the new fish time to acclimate to new water and seeing new roommates but without the stress of having to flee/fight. I do believe that stress lowers fish's ability and immunity to fight disease. And for the most part, this had been working for me. My baby nets are too small however for a lot of fish so the enclosure itself could be a source of stress for some bigger fish. My new 20g will not have those issues plus I can keep multiple fish in the 20g and release them all at the same time, thus spreading out bullying.

 

[Tahoe61]

But yeah! what do we think gang? Can properly sized UV reliably keep a tank healthy?

^^^ The original premise of the thread. Why does it always have to come down to us versus them on the topic of QT? Both sides have valid points but yet the horse is not dead enough yet.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[sgdnycct]

But yeah! what do we think gang? Can properly sized UV reliably keep a tank healthy?

^^^ The original premise of the thread. Why does it always have to come down to us versus them on the topic of QT? Both sides have valid points but yet the horse is not dead enough yet.

Just my 2 cents.

I know it can frustrating when the conversations veer off topic. I think this happens because issues and solutions are interrelated. So, for example, UV for ICH management- could it work? Yes, as an overall ich management program. That starts going down the non-qt conversation which then someone who is qt-only will suggest to not go down that path and responses go to that comment.

So it’s easy to see when dealing with a community of non-scientists with contradicting opinions who are all eager to help I think it’s natural that the conversations will drift.

That’s said, I think new hobbyists in particular probably get lost with so much drift and contradictions. I think we could all be more cognizant of that.

 

[Freenow54]

Mine is in the cabinet but its not the same water. I put it there because I was thinking of maybe using a sump but then I chose a canister filter to keep everything simple. My 20g is a high tank so it can't come out of the cabinet except in pieces, LOL. Its a stand alone system. I had been using it for a clownfish that a friend gave me since I already had a mature clownfish and did not want one of them to kill the other. Unfortunately my clown is one that died of disease 3 wks ago so I moved the other clown into the 75g. That's when I decided that I would use this 20g as an observation QT. That way if new fish have disease that manifests itself 2 weeks after purchase, I will know before they go into the main display tank.
Before this last incident, I used a baby net in the display to acclimated new fish. It of course did share water so new fish could bring disease in. However, i already assumed that there was disease in my display but that it was managed. And I had hoped that by keeping fish in the baby net that I was giving the new fish time to acclimate to new water and seeing new roommates but without the stress of having to flee/fight. I do believe that stress lowers fish's ability and immunity to fight disease. And for the most part, this had been working for me. My baby nets are too small however for a lot of fish so the enclosure itself could be a source of stress for some bigger fish. My new 20g will not have those issues plus I can keep multiple fish in the 20g and release them all at the same time, thus spreading out bullying.

I bought 7 fish all at the same time , and put them in the tank . I suppose that I took the chance of infecting the display but I got lucky , and all survived until the squabbling started and some got chased out . But now since , and I also have a 20 want to put some more fish in since I am down to three and as mentioned due to murder don't know what to do since I have no faith in my ability and don't like to QT

 

[vlangel]

I bought 7 fish all at the same time , and put them in the tank . I suppose that I took the chance of infecting the display but I got lucky , and all survived until the squabbling started and some got chased out . But now since , and I also have a 20 want to put some more fish in since I am down to three and as mentioned due to murder don't know what to do since I have no faith in my ability and don't like to QT

I guess each one of us need to find the method that works for us and go with it. Like I said in my earlier post, I believe that TTM can work and folks that I respect use that method. For me, I don't really have enough tanks, heaters and filtration to really do it right. Then there is monitoring all those tanks and doing water changes on them and I found it overwhelming. Mistakes on my end costs fish lives , so I decided it was not the method for me.
I am comfortable with my modified QT/UV sterilizer method. Will it protect every fish from dying from disease? Maybe not, but I have had mostly success with just choosing what appear to be healthy fish and putting them in a tank where feeding the fish well, paying attention to gut health and reducing stress has worked for me. My new steps can only improve my chances of managing disease more effectively.

 

[Ryan15236]

I posted this in a different thread a few days ago. It’s my personal experience with UV. I have even added an acanthurus tang (convict-still don’t know if I trust a PBT) with good results

Here is my experience on this topic. I have never QTed properly

Had a 125 gallon reef 10 years ago for about 2 years. I would have occasional ich outbreaks on yellow and purple tang but nothing major. All fish could recover except I tried a powder blue tang. It was honestly rough to watch. The fish would slowly get covered more with spots and become skinnier. The fish would still eat but slowly succumb to the parasite until it passed. There was no UV on system

Out of hobby for 10 years until about 2 years ago

180 gallon reef no UV on system. Added fish. Everything going pretty well. Might see a spot of ich or flashing here and there but nothing too bad. About a 3 months in I add a Longnose butterfly and get gill flukes in my tank. Add prazipro most fish recover but lost about 3. Started adding fish again after about a month and did so until about 3 more months later then massive velvet outbreak after adding majestic angel that took 13 of my 16 fish. Only survivors were hippo tang, foxface, and longnose hawk. My tank sat this way for about 5 months. I added a UV to my system and started again. I’m about a year into running the tank like this with zero losses after UV. I have 21 fish that are fat and healthy. The system is managed

I will without a doubt never have a system without a UV sterilizer at minimum. I would love the peace of mind of not having disease present tho. This system will stay managed but there’s an upgrade in my future and decisions will have to be made

Update

I added an Achilles a few days after this post and a blonde naso. The Achilles is more sensitive to ich. I have the UV on a controllable pump. If I run the UV faster than 150 gph spots will show up on the Achilles and occasional flashing. If I keep it under no flashing or spots. Only tang to show signs with the UV. 4 months so far of Achilles

UV is pentair 25 Watt. Manufacturer states 131 gph for parasite control. It seems I can get a little more but pretty good recommendation

 

[NYCBOB]

UV definitely helps. It doesnt eliminate the parasites but somewhat controls its populations.

 

[allenk4]

Update

I added an Achilles a few days after this post and a blonde naso. The Achilles is more sensitive to ich. I have the UV on a controllable pump. If I run the UV faster than 150 gph spots will show up on the Achilles and occasional flashing. If I keep it under no flashing or spots. Only tang to show signs with the UV. 4 months so far of Achilles

UV is pentair 25 Watt. Manufacturer states 131 gph for parasite control. It seems I can get a little more but pretty good recommendation

I always find this UV flow discussion interesting.

The effect of UV is cumulative. If it takes X amount to damage the RNA sufficiently, and each pass thru the unit delivers 1/2 X…two passes does the job.

It seems the flow rate would be more relevant when addressing organisms that reproduce very rapidly, like bacteria. In that instance, if the flow rate didn’t circulate the entirety of the system volume quickly enough the bacteria could reproduce before the UV could sufficiently damage its RNA.

 

[Freenow54]

I always find this UV flow discussion interesting.

The effect of UV is cumulative. If it takes X amount to damage the RNA sufficiently, and each pass thru the unit delivers 1/2 X…two passes does the job.

It seems the flow rate would be more relevant when addressing organisms that reproduce very rapidly, like bacteria. In that instance, if the flow rate didn’t circulate the entirety of the system volume quickly enough the bacteria could reproduce before the UV could sufficiently damage its RNA.

In a perfect world maybe However you would have to guarantee the entire Water volume gets circulated and have the parasite in the exact stage to be effected . There is no way to ensure that their life cycle is not continuing away from that UV system in another part of the tank. Which may be an argument for a bare bottom approach. Which me included does not find appealing but am willing to try if it means eliminating Parasites cycle. Just a thought. Math is not always the answer without taking variables into account

 

[Freenow54]

The key to successful UV treatment is exposure time ultimately and flow rate will help determine this. I plan to run a 40W UV/Ozone combo on my current 300 gallon build and chose this due to flow rate and exposure preferences.

People should be aware that there is an actual calculation to arrive at what is called the Dose rate. You need a UV-C rated light which from what I see is about half of the publicized wattage ( false marketing by some ) . Then the volume of the filter body , then flow rate . Then as I just talked about a guarantee that the entire water volume runs through it

 

[noobreefer1999]

Hi everyone I came home to see this had happen to my Achilles but I have no idea what’s happening to it as there’s a big patch of rotten flesh like on him
He’s still eating super aggressively and I have a feeling that he got slashed by one of the tang

 

[Fish Fan]

Hi everyone I came home to see this had happen to my Achilles but I have no idea what’s happening to it as there’s a big patch of rotten flesh like on him
He’s still eating super aggressively and I have a feeling that he got slashed by one of the tang

Sorry to see your fish in distress! That could certainly be a swipe from another Tang. I'd suggest going to this subforum and starting your own thread there, and then the R2R Fish Medic team can take a look for you:
https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/fish-disease-treatment-and-diagnosis.771/

Here's some additional info when asking for help for a sick or injured fish:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/s...sease-treatment-and-diagnosis-section.775547/

I hope this helps and good luck!

 

[allenk4]

In a perfect world maybe However you would have to guarantee the entire Water volume gets circulated and have the parasite in the exact stage to be effected . There is no way to ensure that their life cycle is not continuing away from that UV system in another part of the tank. Which may be an argument for a bare bottom approach. Which me included does not find appealing but am willing to try if it means eliminating Parasites cycle. Just a thought. Math is not always the answer without taking variables into account

For the Pentair 40W unit the suggested flow rates are as follows:

• Algae & Bacteria Water Flow Rate: 943GPH
• Protozoa Bacteria Water Flow Rate: 157GPH

This unit is suggested for an Aquarium of 260 gallons or less.

At the lowest suggested flow rate…this unit passes the entirety of the 260 gallons thru the unit over 15 times per 24 hours.

The pelagic phase of Ich is 48-72 hours.

Please explain your logic.

 

[allenk4]

In a perfect world maybe However you would have to guarantee the entire Water volume gets circulated and have the parasite in the exact stage to be effected . There is no way to ensure that their life cycle is not continuing away from that UV system in another part of the tank. Which may be an argument for a bare bottom approach. Which me included does not find appealing but am willing to try if it means eliminating Parasites cycle. Just a thought. Math is not always the answer without taking variables into account

Why would eliminating substrate affect a parasite like Ich? I am assuming you are not removing your rock, snails, glass, overflow, plumbing, sump….

The tomont stage of Ich can attach and live on all these surfaces

 

[Freenow54]

Why would eliminating substrate affect a parasite like Ich? I am assuming you are not removing your rock, snails, glass, overflow, plumbing, sump….

The tomont stage of Ich can attach and live on all these surfaces

I am not aware that they can attach . I assumed that it would be easier to have them free flowing to capture them in the UV flow

 

[Freenow54]

For the Pentair 40W unit the suggested flow rates are as follows:

• Algae & Bacteria Water Flow Rate: 943GPH
• Protozoa Bacteria Water Flow Rate: 157GPH

This unit is suggested for an Aquarium of 260 gallons or less.

At the lowest suggested flow rate…this unit passes the entirety of the 260 gallons thru the unit over 15 times per 24 hours.

The pelagic phase of Ich is 48-72 hours.

Please explain your logic.

you have absolutely no guarantee all the water in the tank is flowing through the UV filter possibly why it is said by many that you cannot eradicate ich just control it. Do they publicize the effective wattage of the filter ? Is it a UV- C ?

 

[allenk4]

I am not aware that they can attach . I assumed that it would be easier to have them free flowing to capture them in the UV flow

Like most living organisms, Ich goes thru several stages of life. Ich has a free swimming stage (pelagic) a stage where the egg/tomont is attached to something and a stage where the Ich parasite is attached to your powder blue tang.

The UV can only address the Ich during the 48-72 hours that it is pelagic.

 

[allenk4]

you have absolutely no guarantee all the water in the tank is flowing through the UV filter possibly why it is said by many that you cannot eradicate ich just control it. Do they publicize the effective wattage of the filter ? Is it a UV- C ?

Please explain how a tank that is pumping even 1% of the system volume per hour thru the UV unit, would not pass 100% of the volume thru the unit in 100 hours ?

You would have to completely ignore the manufacturers recommendations to NOT circulate the entirety of the system thru the UV during the 48-72 hour pelagic stage of Ich.

UV is not a "filter".

Effective wattage is not considered, by most, as the best measurement of UV effectiveness. Manufacturers will sometimes cite: 1 watt per 10 gallons. Generally, manufacturers will cite a flow rate for algae & bacteria and a lower flow rate for parasites. Please remember, these flow rates are designed to damage the RNA of the organism in a Single Pass, enough that it cannot reproduce and the life cycle is thus interrupted.

Please utilize Google to reveal the information you seek on specific UV products. The Pentair website is a good starting point.

 

[allenk4]

you have absolutely no guarantee all the water in the tank is flowing through the UV filter possibly why it is said by many that you cannot eradicate ich just control it. Do they publicize the effective wattage of the filter ? Is it a UV- C ?

You certainly can "eliminate Ich".

Fallow period that exceed the Ich lifecycle, before adding anything to the system.

Most people are unwilling to eliminate the main variable….Ich prone fish.

Few are willing to practice Strict Quarantine of new fish, inverts, coral, anything wet. Establishing a QT system that’s 10 feet from their display system with no shared anything.

Many try to reduce the chance of a Ich outbreak by Running UV, Ozone, optimal fish diet and stable parameters; especially temperature. All these variables have been recognized as able to diminish the chance of an outbreak of Ich.

Aquabiomics offers a TankDNA test that will inform you if there is Ich DNA in your system.

 

[Freenow54]

You certainly can "eliminate Ich".

Fallow period that exceed the Ich lifecycle, before adding anything to the system.

Most people are unwilling to eliminate the main variable….Ich prone fish.

Few are willing to practice Strict Quarantine of new fish, inverts, coral, anything wet. Establishing a QT system that’s 10 feet from their display system with no shared anything.

Many try to reduce the chance of a Ich outbreak by Running UV, Ozone, optimal fish diet and stable parameters; especially temperature. All these variables have been recognized as able to diminish the chance of an outbreak of Ich.

Aquabiomics offers a TankDNA test that will inform you if there is Ich DNA in your system.

With no insult you made a statement . Can you provide qualified proof in the way of a Study? I made a comment reflecting others statements no proof . So would certainly like to put this argument ie can? or Cannot ? eradicate ich . Your help would be appreciated. Your qualifications would be nice to know as well. I have constantly asked for people to do that before they post so that we as a community can place you in a special category ie chemist , marine biologist ect.