Issues with SPS

[arcangelreef32]

Having an issue with SPS I put in my tank. They seem to do well for awhile then they start losing tissue on the tips and getting what looks like brown algae but maybe it’s bacteria?

I’ll add some pics.
My parameters are fairly standard. And quite consistent.
My nitrates are between 10-15 depending how much I feed and phos 0.03-0.07.
Alk 8-8.5
Cal 425-450
Mag 1320-1350
Salinity 1.026

The tank is a water box reef 180, 5ft long.
I have 5 Xr15’s over top, I run it at 80% schedule. All blues and UV maxed and whites at about 16%. I’ve measured the par with an older apogee and I get highs of 230-250 where I put most my sps according to that meter. 12 hour photo period and an hour ramp on each side. So 10hrs at full light.
Am I giving too much light? Not enough light? By the par, if it’s correct I should be giving adequate light from information I’ve read. Definitely not enough to be burning the coral, no?

I have good flow in the tank with 4 MP 40’s on reef crest at varying intensities.

I run a 57watt UV.

One thing to note is I do have a serious algae issue, it’s a green hair turf kind of algae. Extremely hard to get off the rocks. Is it possible the algae is sucking all the nutrients away from the coral?

I use rodi water, and Red Sea blue bucket salt.
Tank is just over a year old.

Let me know what you think.
Thanks

 

[Dburr1014]

Got a full tank shot and white light?
Age of tank and how started?

 

[NoohpyT]

Any temp swings?

 

[Hurricane Aquatics]

Something is missing here. I doubt you keep a close eye on phosphates now do you ?.

All joking aside, GHA is caused from high phosphates. Dinoflagelates is usually caused from 0 Nitrates and 0 Phosphates.

So your SPS getting brown algae on the ends is called dumping zooxanthellae because of high phosphates. You can save them and I wouldn't recommend taking drastic action other than keeping the phosphates down to 0.04 to 0.08 if possible. 0.10 isn't bad, but when you have GHA, less is better. I also wouldn't run GFO unless your phosphates are through the roof. It does more harm than good in my opinion.

Whats your mechanical and biological filtration setup? What are you using to check phosphates?

I would raise magnesium to 1450 to 1500 (a little higher won't hurt so don't panic if you don't dose just correctly the first time). Mag helps level out Alk and Calcium too.

 

[Hurricane Aquatics]

Any temp swings?

Always a good and relevant question. You'll usually see RTN when you have large temp swings and sometimes it takes weeks after the temp swing to see it. Power outages are normally the cause or bad heaters.

 

[arcangelreef32]

Something is missing here. I doubt you keep a close eye on phosphates now do you ?.

All joking aside, GHA is caused from high phosphates. Dinoflagelates is usually caused from 0 Nitrates and 0 Phosphates.

So your SPS getting brown algae on the ends is called dumping zooxanthellae because of high phosphates. You can save them and I wouldn't recommend taking drastic action other than keeping the phosphates down to 0.04 to 0.08 if possible. 0.10 isn't bad, but when you have GHA, less is better. I also wouldn't run GFO unless your phosphates are through the roof. It does more harm than good in my opinion.

Whats your mechanical and biological filtration setup? What are you using to check phosphates?

I would raise magnesium to 1450 to 1500 (a little higher won't hurt so don't panic if you don't dose just correctly the first time). Mag helps level out Alk and Calcium too.

I do keep a very close eye on phosphates.. I test everything very regularly.

I use a Hanna checker and a Red Sea kit and it’s always low. 0.03-0.07.

I’ve been recommended the higher mag a few times, im going to start dosing it up slowly.

I use filter floss in 7” cups changed every 4-5 days. activated carbon, and about 5 lbs of biohome biological media. And a reef octo 150 int regal dc skimmer.

 

[arcangelreef32]

Any temp swings?

No temp is very consistent. I have it set at a half a degree interval, keeps the tank about 77.5-78.

 

[arcangelreef32]

Got a full tank shot and white light?
Age of tank and how started?

Tank is just over a year.
Started with live sand, dry rock.

 

[Hurricane Aquatics]

I do keep a very close eye on phosphates.. I test everything very regularly.

I use a Hanna checker and a Red Sea kit and it’s always low. 0.03-0.07.

I’ve been recommended the higher mag a few times, im going to start dosing it up slowly.

I use filter floss in 7” cups changed every 4-5 days. activated carbon, and about 5 lbs of biohome biological media. And a reef octo 150 int regal dc skimmer.

Ok, I would get a second opinion on the phosphates. Maybe a local store that can run a test too? GHA is absolutely from high phosphates and generally high nutrients.

Outside of phosphates when SPS expell their zooxanthellae, it's because of stress. Usually a drastic change in parameters as SPS like everything to stay stable.

 

[Hurricane Aquatics]

Tank is just over a year.
Started with live sand, dry rock.

Last question, what's your PH at?

 

[arcangelreef32]

Ok, I would get a second opinion on the phosphates. Maybe a local store that can run a test too? GHA is absolutely from high phosphates and generally high nutrients.

Outside of phosphates when SPS expell their zooxanthellae, it's because of stress. Usually a drastic change in parameters as SPS like everything to stay stable.

I am fairly confident in my testing. Having two brands of different style test kits and used 2 different batches of reagents for my Hanna.
Although I understand what you are saying. Phosphate itself doesn’t tell the whole story. It’s possible the algae is eating up a lot of the nutrients. Could be a case of out competing my corals.
I do know that if my detectable phosphate hits 0.0 my corals definitely suffer, and I have dosed phosphates in the effort to keep it from bottoming out.


My ph runs 8.0-8.2. Sometimes it dips into the 7.9 area overnight.

 

[SPS2020]

I'd consider an ICP test to be sure everything is on track.

 

[arcangelreef32]

I'd consider an ICP test to be sure everything is on track.

Yah, I’m going to send one off. I do water changes about every 3-4 weeks. About 30%. I don’t feel anything should be off considering I really don’t have a lot of coral growing. But possibly there’s something in my water I’m unaware of.

 

[NoohpyT]

Always a good and relevant question. You'll usually see RTN when you have large temp swings and sometimes it takes weeks after the temp swing to see it. Power outages are normally the cause or bad heaters.

Yep had this happen to one of my Maricultured colonies, so that's why I always ask lol

 

[Hurricane Aquatics]

I am fairly confident in my testing. Having two brands of different style test kits and used 2 different batches of reagents for my Hanna.
Although I understand what you are saying. Phosphate itself doesn’t tell the whole story. It’s possible the algae is eating up a lot of the nutrients. Could be a case of out competing my corals.
I do know that if my detectable phosphate hits 0.0 my corals definitely suffer, and I have dosed phosphates in the effort to keep it from bottoming out.


My ph runs 8.0-8.2. Sometimes it dips into the 7.9 area overnight.

That's what I'm getting at, in a longer way. Yes, the phosphates that the Hanna and other test kits measure is not the same as the Phosphorus in your system that feeds your corals.

Your phosphates may be much higher than you realize because rock, algae, etc is binding it. So you're dosing phosphates exacerbates the underlying problem.

What I was saying in my first reply, is that when an SPS expells zooxanthellae through it's tips, it has an abundance of the nutrient phosphorus. So you're definitely not as low as the test kits are saying. If you were, you would have no algae.

If your true levels of phosphate / phosphorus was 0, then yes, your SPS would start to expell zooxanthellae all over and die for lack of nutrients. Acropora and all SPS are basically a living organism that is made up of algae in the form of Dinoflagelates and algae in general. So when they have too much, they expell through the tips. When they don't have enough, the expell all over and die.

That's why so many treatments for Dinoflagelates, like Fauna Marin Dino x, will absolutely kill SPS. SPS are made up of the exact algae Dino X is targeting.

In the interim, I would lay off dosing phosphates and watch the SPS. If they are truly getting low from a nutrient value, eh oh is highly unlikely if you're feeding fish and amino's, you'll start to notice them getting paler and not being as colorful. Then you could add some phosphates.

 

[Dburr1014]

I do keep a very close eye on phosphates.. I test everything very regularly.

I use a Hanna checker and a Red Sea kit and it’s always low. 0.03-0.07.

I’ve been recommended the higher mag a few times, im going to start dosing it up slowly.

I use filter floss in 7” cups changed every 4-5 days. activated carbon, and about 5 lbs of biohome biological media. And a reef octo 150 int regal dc skimmer.

Lose the activated carbon filter a while. See if things perk up.

 

[ScottB]

Your water parameters are fine. The algae level is normal for 1 year into a dead rock start. Having an SPS hostile biome at 1 year with a dead rock start is also pretty common, anecdotally at least. It can take a little longer.

Your PAR reading is a little low to me, but inversely, your lights running UV @ 100% isn't something I do. I run that channel 25-30% on both the Stratons and my old AI26s (different system). I tried running higher UV on the Stratons and golly, my SPS & LPS simply hated it.

Just a thought. A couple one spot fox faces just might clear up the algae. They keep both my systems completely algae free.

 

[X-37B]

Having an issue with SPS I put in my tank. They seem to do well for awhile then they start losing tissue on the tips and getting what looks like brown algae but maybe it’s bacteria?

I’ll add some pics.
My parameters are fairly standard. And quite consistent.
My nitrates are between 10-15 depending how much I feed and phos 0.03-0.07.
Alk 8-8.5
Cal 425-450
Mag 1320-1350
Salinity 1.026

The tank is a water box reef 180, 5ft long.
I have 5 Xr15’s over top, I run it at 80% schedule. All blues and UV maxed and whites at about 16%. I’ve measured the par with an older apogee and I get highs of 230-250 where I put most my sps according to that meter. 12 hour photo period and an hour ramp on each side. So 10hrs at full light.
Am I giving too much light? Not enough light? By the par, if it’s correct I should be giving adequate light from information I’ve read. Definitely not enough to be burning the coral, no?

I have good flow in the tank with 4 MP 40’s on reef crest at varying intensities.

I run a 57watt UV.

One thing to note is I do have a serious algae issue, it’s a green hair turf kind of algae. Extremely hard to get off the rocks. Is it possible the algae is sucking all the nutrients away from the coral?

I use rodi water, and Red Sea blue bucket salt.
Tank is just over a year old.

Let me know what you think.
Thanks

I think your parameters are fine, imo.
Most likely the algae is consuming the po4 rather quick.
I run full ab+ on my 80 running 4 xr15's. Surface to the bottom is only 12.5".
You may want to look at running the full ab+ but start the schedule at say 70% and work up.
I have sps within a few inches of the surface.
I also have to dose 3ml of po4 daily to keep po4 at <0.1.
I also have 11 fish and feed heavy.

 

[arcangelreef32]

That's what I'm getting at, in a longer way. Yes, the phosphates that the Hanna and other test kits measure is not the same as the Phosphorus in your system that feeds your corals.

Your phosphates may be much higher than you realize because rock, algae, etc is binding it. So you're dosing phosphates exacerbates the underlying problem.

What I was saying in my first reply, is that when an SPS expells zooxanthellae through it's tips, it has an abundance of the nutrient phosphorus. So you're definitely not as low as the test kits are saying. If you were, you would have no algae.

If your true levels of phosphate / phosphorus was 0, then yes, your SPS would start to expell zooxanthellae all over and die for lack of nutrients. Acropora and all SPS are basically a living organism that is made up of algae in the form of Dinoflagelates and algae in general. So when they have too much, they expell through the tips. When they don't have enough, the expell all over and die.

That's why so many treatments for Dinoflagelates, like Fauna Marin Dino x, will absolutely kill SPS. SPS are made up of the exact algae Dino X is targeting.

In the interim, I would lay off dosing phosphates and watch the SPS. If they are truly getting low from a nutrient value, eh oh is highly unlikely if you're feeding fish and amino's, you'll start to notice them getting paler and not being as colorful. Then you could add some phosphates.

Can you show me an article or anything related to corals expelling zoox because of high phosphates or phosphorous?
I’ve never read anything along those lines. I’ve read articles about temperature and lighting to cause expulsion, but never anything about phosphates.

 

[Hurricane Aquatics]

Can you show me an article or anything related to corals expelling zoox because of high phosphates or phosphorous?
I’ve never read anything along those lines. I’ve read articles about temperature and lighting to cause expulsion, but never anything about phosphates.

I know this from experience, but this isn't a scientific article, but Pieces of the Ocean post. I just did a quick Google search. I will say that I understand your hesitation and I thinks it's healthy to have skepticism, but I know what I'm doing or I wouldn't advise you.

Here's the posting. Good info in here.

Why Are My SPS Corals Turning Brown?

SPS (small polyp stony) corals generally turn brown when overproduction of zooxanthellae occurs inside the coral's tissues. The reason for browning comes from increased levels of zooxanthellae blocking the coral’s natural pigments. Has your SPS coral suddenly got a brownish hue? Corals turning...

www.piecesoftheocean.com