Jebao Powerhead/Wavemaker - Running on 12VDC?

[chipmunkofdoom2]

I'm trying to do a direct DC-DC backup for my Jebao powerheads. The problem is my battery system is 12V, and the Jebao powerheads don't have a separate battery backup input for 12VDC like the Ecotech pumps. They only have the main input which accepts 24VDC.

I've done some Googling and it looks like people have been successful running just 12VDC into the pump controller, even though it's supposed to accept 24VDC. I tried this myself and it works. The pump looks like it spins slower, but it's hard to estimate the rotational speed by looking at the spinning impeller. I measured both the power draw of the 12V supply and the 24V supply, as well as the current drawn by the pump controller:

Power draw of supplies(measured with Kill-A-Watt):
12V supply: 3.8W
24V supply: 10.6W

DC Current draw:
12V supply: 205 mA
24V supply: 390 mA

Estimated power usage (DC current x DC voltage):
12V: 2.46W
24V: 9.36

I know this is asking for a lot of speculation, but does anyone have any thoughts about running something like a Jebao powerhead on 12V in the event of a power failure? What about long-term damage to the pump or controller? I've been searching all over for DC-DC boost converters to boost the 12VDC from the battery to 24VDC on power failure. But, I can't find any that have high enough current ratings for a decent price, or that I would trust long-term.

@Brew12 and other electronics gurus, feel free to chime in

 

[Brew12]

I'm trying to do a direct DC-DC backup for my Jebao powerheads. The problem is my battery system is 12V, and the Jebao powerheads don't have a separate battery backup input for 12VDC like the Ecotech pumps. They only have the main input which accepts 24VDC.

I've done some Googling and it looks like people have been successful running just 12VDC into the pump controller, even though it's supposed to accept 24VDC. I tried this myself and it works. The pump looks like it spins slower, but it's hard to estimate the rotational speed by looking at the spinning impeller. I measured both the power draw of the 12V supply and the 24V supply, as well as the current drawn by the pump controller:

Power draw of supplies(measured with Kill-A-Watt):
12V supply: 3.8W
24V supply: 10.6W

DC Current draw:
12V supply: 205 mA
24V supply: 390 mA

Estimated power usage (DC current x DC voltage):
12V: 2.46W
24V: 9.36

I know this is asking for a lot of speculation, but does anyone have any thoughts about running something like a Jebao powerhead on 12V in the event of a power failure? What about long-term damage to the pump or controller? I've been searching all over for DC-DC boost converters to boost the 12VDC from the battery to 24VDC on power failure. But, I can't find any that have high enough current ratings for a decent price, or that I would trust long-term.

@Brew12 and other electronics gurus, feel free to chime in

Unless specifically designed for it, this shouldn't be done. Damaging components is very likely.

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

Ugh @Brew12, why couldn't you give me the answer I wanted to hear instead of the right answer??

Thanks for the input though. I know that Fish-Street sells adjustable power supplies that are supposed to throttle back the pumps by giving them lower voltages. It looks like a generic supply though, so I don't think they're endorsed by the manufacturer.

The search for a good DC-DC boost circuit continues...

 

[Brew12]

Ugh @Brew12, why couldn't you give me the answer I wanted to hear instead of the right answer??

Because you aren't my wife so I don't fear the repercussions of speaking the truth!

 

[RichtheReefer21]

Hello, I work as an electronic technician, and I am surrounded by Electronic Masterminds...

I had one of my top colleagues/mentors take a look at your post...

If you can give me/post the schematic, he will tell you how to fix it. He said there are many ways to do a "step up" between your 12V source and the 24V draw required to the powerhead.

 

[Brew12]

Something like this might work and doesn't cost too terribly much.
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetai...GsmoEFRKS8DBmbsC9qQvlVGsV5PLZEf8/VyIZwMkcHg==

 

[RichtheReefer21]

He said he needs to see your circuitry and the way you have it currently set up.

He also is already recommending that if you have a 12v battery hooked to multiple facets as a backup, that if you are going to "step up" (12v boost to 24v) that you are probably going to want to have a 2nd battery just for that one function. But it depends on if you have it in series or parallel circuit and a few other factors.

My unit designs, builds, tests, and assembles stuff for NASA and other space-based customers. He knows his ****.
He also was the lead electronic tech aboard several cruisers in the navy and installed/setup/built the launching mechanisms for the cruise missiles onboard.

lemme know and I'll try to help however I can.

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

Thanks @RichtheReefer21, I appreciate the input. I'm not sure what the circuitry in the controller is unfortunately. I know that the device is meant to run on 24VDC. I know that it works on 12VDC. I believe that the powerhead uses a 0 - 5V control signal, which explains why it runs at 1/4 speed on 12V. The 12V is half the 24V, so that's cutting the pump's speed in half right there. The control voltage likely then drops to 2.5, which tells the pump to run at half speed again, which ends up being 1/4 total speed. That's about all I know regarding how the pump works. unfortunately.

@Brew12 that would certainly work, and I like the small form factor. The problem is I was hoping to get something that's about 3A or so. I was hoping to make this into a tutorial that could be universal for all Jebao powerheads, and some of the bigger ones use up to 2A at 24VDC. The 3A would give me a bit of breathing room because I'm sure some of the power ratings on these generic boosters is generous.

I suppose I could always use a 2A booster and caution users to choose a different circuit if they had a larger pump..

 

[Brew12]

Thanks @RichtheReefer21, I appreciate the input. I'm not sure what the circuitry in the controller is unfortunately. I know that the device is meant to run on 24VDC. I know that it works on 12VDC. I believe that the powerhead uses a 0 - 5V control signal, which explains why it runs at 1/4 speed on 12V. The 12V is half the 24V, so that's cutting the pump's speed in half right there. The control voltage likely then drops to 2.5, which tells the pump to run at half speed again, which ends up being 1/4 total speed. That's about all I know regarding how the pump works. unfortunately.

@Brew12 that would certainly work, and I like the small form factor. The problem is I was hoping to get something that's about 3A or so. I was hoping to make this into a tutorial that could be universal for all Jebao powerheads, and some of the bigger ones use up to 2A at 24VDC. The 3A would give me a bit of breathing room because I'm sure some of the power ratings on these generic boosters is generous.

I suppose I could always use a 2A booster and caution users to choose a different circuit if they had a larger pump..

These go up to 2.5A (60W) but the cost reflects the increase in power.
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TRACO-Power/TEN-60-1215N?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvGsmoEFRKS8GuhBnqedIdimVVQhzvlbJRB%2b1UR3TTPVw==

 

[Flippers4pups]

Following as I'm using Jebao's on a JB Wave controller that isn't made anymore.

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

These go up to 2.5A (60W) but the cost reflects the increase in power.
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TRACO-Power/TEN-60-1215N?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvGsmoEFRKS8GuhBnqedIdimVVQhzvlbJRB%2b1UR3TTPVw==

Oof, you're not kidding about that. Hm. I'm going to look into DIYing a simple DC voltage doubler. The caps and timers in most DC step ups are cheap enough. If I can build something for a few bucks that might be worth it. It would put the tutorial out of reach of most users though.

 

[Brew12]

Oof, you're not kidding about that. Hm. I'm going to look into DIYing a simple DC voltage doubler. The caps and timers in most DC step ups are cheap enough. If I can build something for a few bucks that might be worth it. It would put the tutorial out of reach of most users though.

Have you considered doing the base system at 24VDC and then taping off of only 1 battery for the 12VDC?

 

[RichtheReefer21]

 

[RichtheReefer21]

Have you considered doing the base system at 24VDC and then taping off of only 1 battery for the 12VDC?

Hook two 12v batteries in series and you get 24v.. I assume he thought of this, but wants to accomplish this with just 1 car battery?

 

[Brew12]

Hook two 12v batteries in series and you get 24v.. I assume he thought of this, but wants to accomplish this with just 1 car battery?

I'm not sure, but figured it was worth asking about. Instead of a 12V charger and 12V battery you can get 2 x 12V batteries and a single 24V charger and have both voltages available.

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

Have you considered doing the base system at 24VDC and then taping off of only 1 battery for the 12VDC?

Yeah that's an option. I was hoping to not have to do it though. I have one 50Ah battery and one 100Ah battery. The 50Ah battery is getting on 6 or 7 years old now. I'd feel better pairing the two together if they were closer in age and capacity.

Yeah something like that, but I think this one's for AC. I think these work because the positive cycle forward-biases one diode and reverse biases the other, which "charges" the first capacitor. The negative cycle does the opposite and charges the other capacitor. The two capacitors added together add up to double the voltage.

I think DC doublers work similarly, they just use something like a 555 timer to switch the DC current instead of relying on an AC waveform to do it. I was hoping not to go this route though. I don't have an oscilloscope, so I'd have no way to measure ripple and performance if I made this circuit myself. I also don't know much about making sure the circuit could handle 3A.

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

I mean there are certainly ways around this. It's just becoming much more of a project than I thought, plus, it's not going to be anywhere near as slick as I hoped. I was hoping to build a neat little 3" x 3" x 1.5" project box. I was going to have two DC barrel jacks on one side, one for the Jebao power supply, one for the battery input. The box would contain a 24V relay that would switch between the two sources using the power from the Jebao power supply. It would have a 12V to 24V boost converter if necessary. Then there'd be a single output you plug into the pump controller.

I think that I'll probably just order a small DC boost circuit that I know will work for my pump and put that in a disclaimer to order one that fits your pump's current needs if you do this yourself.

 

[RichtheReefer21]

Yeah that's an option. I was hoping to not have to do it though. I have one 50Ah battery and one 100Ah battery. The 50Ah battery is getting on 6 or 7 years old now. I'd feel better pairing the two together if they were closer in age and capacity.

Yeah something like that, but I think this one's for AC. I think these work because the positive cycle forward-biases one diode and reverse biases the other, which "charges" the first capacitor. The negative cycle does the opposite and charges the other capacitor. The two capacitors added together add up to double the voltage.

I think DC doublers work similarly, they just use something like a 555 timer to switch the DC current instead of relying on an AC waveform to do it. I was hoping not to go this route though. I don't have an oscilloscope, so I'd have no way to measure ripple and performance if I made this circuit myself. I also don't know much about making sure the circuit could handle 3A.

There is a youtube video I found on 555 timer voltage double circuits, looks annoyingly over complicated to me. Perhaps not to you though.

Ive got 3 O'scopes here in the lab, but I cant let you borrow them sadly, govn't property. lol...

If you could do it in series 2 12vDC power supplies (batteries) you would have 24VDC, now, when you add a circuit, the voltage cuts in half, naturally. Put the power head line ahead of all the 12vDC items in the circuit, and off the split you make after the Jebao line, you will have 12VDC remaining to then circuit up the rest of your items that run 12vdc back to your return...

just another idea.

Or.... You could run the entire thing at 24Vdc and use resisters in between the main line and your 12vdc items. If you aren't sure about matching up the batteries with same Ah and life etc.. then ehhhh, your call.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

It works fine on 12v for extended periods.
My wife switched the power supply wires once accidentally.
Went a month with low flow.
NBD.
Swapped back and it was fine.

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

It works fine on 12v for extended periods.
My wife switched the power supply wires once accidentally.
Went a month with low flow.
NBD.
Swapped back and it was fine.

Yeah I mean the pumps clearly do run on 12VDC. Almost every guide you see online about Jebao battery backup feeds 12VDC straight into the controller. There also have been mixed reports of pumps failing when running on 12VDC continuously(something some users attempt to do on a long-term basis to throttle them). But, it's hard to say if these pumps were just destined to fail anyway or if the 12VDC caused it.

From a cost perspective, it would definitely be nice if they could run on 12V indefinitely. Complexity would also be reduced if I could feed 12V directly into the controller. It would also make the system more robust if there was no 12V > 24V step up circuit to potentially fail.

I just don't know if for the sake of longevity it's good to run these pumps on 12VDC.