Kalk dosing and the value of real-time monitoring of tank parameters

[JHSteepat]

Guess when my kalk reservoir ran out and when I refilled the reservoir?

I realize kalk chemistry is more complex than simply pH maintenance, and pH is more than just kalk dosing, but I am loving real-time monitoring of the pH, and overall tank parameters (Hydros, but that is not material). I woke up to a pH drop and checked over the system and saw the empty kalk reservoir. So far I've had an expensive heater fail within 6 months of purchase, various road bumps (newer tank, glitches, and learning curve issues are expected), and feel real-time monitoring (pH, temperature, and water levels) has saved me further grief on those occasions. Without monitoring and alarms, I may not have noticed the kalk was dry for a day or two (or more as it is in a cabinet), or that my tank dropped 5 degrees overnight with the heater failure.

FWIW, for my ~130g total volume (WB Infinia 150.4), with 15 small LPS/SPS corals and lots of coralline growth on Marco rock, I am currently dosing Kalk (2 tbsp/gal with 5 mL/g vinegar) via a Versa pump at 1.3mL/min from a 5 g hedpack, which I switch out with another hedpack when I run low (or run out in this situation). I am seeing fantastic LPS, SPS, and corralline growth, and Alk is holding VERY steady, though I had to increase dosage with the addition of corals.

I'd love to level out pH a little more, but the tank is 6 months old and the refugium is anything but robust, though I can't complain about a daily 0.1 pH swing.

So +1 for kalk dosing and real-time parameter monitoring.

 

[IntrinsicReef]

So +1 for kalk dosing and real-time parameter monitoring.

I couldn't agree more.

I'd love to level out pH a little more, but the tank is 6 months old and the refugium is anything but robust, though I can't complain about a daily 0.1 pH swing.

Your pH looks to be in a great range. No reason in my mind to toy with it.

 

[dangles]

Personally I think auto dosing kalk without realtime monitoring is a bit foolish. The implications of screwups are way to serious to not have a constant “eye” on it.

 

[JHSteepat]

Personally I think auto dosing kalk without realtime monitoring is a bit foolish. The implications of screwups are way to serious to not have a constant “eye” on it.

Absolutely, I have the doser shutting off if pH is too high.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I too often noticed my limewater (kalkwasser) ran dry or was clogged by the tank pH being lower than usual.

 

[michealprater]

I have been running the Meckley method and absolutely love it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have been running the Meckley method and absolutely love it.

I would just caution that I do not recommend it. It is a PERFECT example of this effect from another thread:

"We refuse to accept the mantra that the proof is in the pudding. This item comes up a lot, and many reefers misunderstand it. A single reef tank is proof that if every single thing in the way of husbandry done to it is repeated on a second, otherwise identical tank, then that second tank is likely to look similarly nice to the original. But that first tank is not in any way evidence that ANY SINGLE act of husbandry on the first tank is needed or useful, and may even be detrimental. You might accept it as evidence of import if I said the owner doses rubidium, but probably would not if I said the owner does a dance with a voodoo doll of her ex-husband every night when she doses calcium. Why accept one and not the other? Science starts with these sorts of anecdotes and tries to test them (e.g., stop the dance and the dosing of rubidium, and see if anything changes). Without testing, it's not evidence of anything except that it can be done in at least one tank, and still have a good tank.":

In this case, many people jumping on this method may end up with excessive alkalinity when dosing kalkwasser independent of any monitoring of alk.

in Chris' specific case, he uses it along side other ways to adding calcium and alkalinity because his demand is very high and excessive alkalinity is not a problem.

But when a reefer selectively choses to emulate this method in a lower alk demand system, alk can easily get too high, and while I agree that limewater dosing is a great way to add calcium and alkalinity (my preferred method for 20 years), I do recommend that folks monitor alk to be sure it is in a range you desire.

 

[michealprater]

I would just caution that I do not recommend it. It is a PERFECT example of this effect from another thread:

"We refuse to accept the mantra that the proof is in the pudding. This item comes up a lot, and many reefers misunderstand it. A single reef tank is proof that if every single thing in the way of husbandry done to it is repeated on a second, otherwise identical tank, then that second tank is likely to look similarly nice to the original. But that first tank is not in any way evidence that ANY SINGLE act of husbandry on the first tank is needed or useful, and may even be detrimental. You might accept it as evidence of import if I said the owner doses rubidium, but probably would not if I said the owner does a dance with a voodoo doll of her ex-husband every night when she doses calcium. Why accept one and not the other? Science starts with these sorts of anecdotes and tries to test them (e.g., stop the dance and the dosing of rubidium, and see if anything changes). Without testing, it's not evidence of anything except that it can be done in at least one tank, and still have a good tank.":

In this case, many people jumping on this method may end up with excessive alkalinity when dosing kalkwasser independent of any monitoring of alk.

in Chris' specific case, he uses it along side other ways to adding calcium and alkalinity because his demand is very high and excessive alkalinity is not a problem.

But when a reefer selectively choses to emulate this method in a lower alk demand system, alk can easily get too high, and while I agree that limewater dosing is a great way to add calcium and alkalinity (my preferred method for 20 years), I do recommend that folks monitor alk to be sure it is in a range you desire.

Of course… I monitor my alk, cal and mag daily, twice daily for alk. I also introduce other means of PH increase with the use of a co2 scrubber so the kalk dosing isn’t sky high. I appreciate your caution to beginning reefers though.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Of course… I monitor my alk, cal and mag daily, twice daily for alk. I also introduce other means of PH increase with the use of a co2 scrubber so the kalk dosing isn’t sky high. I appreciate your caution to beginning reefers though.

What makes that the Meckley way? Sounds like ordinary dosing of limewater?

 

[michealprater]

What makes that the Meckley way? Sounds like ordinary dosing of limewater?

It’s simply using a controller to closely monitor it and reduce swings. It’s not the invention of kalk dosing, but a way of doing it. You caution is the “ignore alk”, that is understandable. I personally never experienced a kalk swing despite following the directions he gave.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It’s simply using a controller to closely monitor it and reduce swings. It’s not the invention of kalk dosing, but a way of doing it. You caution is the “ignore alk”, that is understandable. I personally never experienced a kalk swing despite following the directions he gave.

My understanding is that his implementation is to deliver saturated kalkwasser without alk control on that delivery. Perhaps we have different understanding of his use, but there are some very extensive threads discussing it.

 

[TokenReefer]

Yeah I thought his jist was to dose to ph and ignore alk. I could be wrong

 

[michealprater]

My understanding is that his implementation is to deliver saturated kalkwasser without alk control on that delivery. Perhaps we have different understanding of his use, but there are some very extensive threads discussing it.

He has been quoted saying dont worry about the alk when you are slowly raising PH. I see it like this, if you go to fast raising your PH, you are going to have bigger issues than alk rising. There is a nice slow gradual rise in alk as you raise the PH, once you achieve the consistent dose, the alk comes down or settles out. You are always limited by your tanks evaporation regardless. Just my own observations, I am not a chemist nor do I claim to be, and I can only speak for what I have seen with my personal measurements using hobby grade equipment.

 

[michealprater]

Yeah I thought his jist was to dose to ph and ignore alk. I could be wrong

I think this is the misconception here. If you are spiking your alk, you are not raising PH correctly. He says not to worry because the limitations I listed above remove the risk.

 

[michealprater]

I hate to speak for Chris, I dont know his handle on here... perhaps someone could tag him and let him explain it.

 

[TokenReefer]

I think this is the misconception here. If you are spiking your alk, you are not raising PH correctly. He says not to worry because the limitations I listed above remove the risk.

I only know of him from this video to be fair. Maybe there's more to it. You can skip to ~1:38 where he talks about dosing to steady ph and letting alk fall where it will. He's also running a coral farm...

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

He has been quoted saying dont worry about the alk when you are slowly raising PH. I see it like this, if you go to fast raising your PH, you are going to have bigger issues than alk rising. There is a nice slow gradual rise in alk as you raise the PH, once you achieve the consistent dose, the alk comes down or settles out. You are always limited by your tanks evaporation regardless. Just my own observations, I am not a chemist nor do I claim to be, and I can only speak for what I have seen with my personal measurements using hobby grade equipment.

That may happen in some aquaria, and it won’t happen in others. Hence my warning to not assume the method is suitable in all tanks.

For example, a low alk demand tank in a high CO2 room may well get very high alk without ever getting to pH 8.2.

 

[michealprater]

That may happen in some aquaria, and it won’t happen in others. Hence my warning to not assume the method is suitable in all tanks.

For example, a low alk demand tank in a high CO2 room may well get very high alk without ever getting to pH 8.2.

Of course, I agree in that exact scenario, but not in all aquariums in general as a blanket statement. Your words carry a lot of weight here. You said you “do not recommend it”. If researched correctly and variables are considered, with proper monitoring it is a very effective method. I am a big fan of yours, and if I just relied on your recommendation, I would be missing out on a method that helped me achieve a sea level average PH in my tank. I also should add, I specifically mentioned I use the Meckley method on my aquarium… my aquarium is personally a perfect candidate for the method.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Of course, I agree in that exact scenario, but not in all aquariums in general as a blanket statement. Your words carry a lot of weight here. You said you “do not recommend it”. If researched correctly and variables are considered, with proper monitoring it is a very effective method. I am a big fan of yours, and if I just relied on your recommendation, I would be missing out on a method that helped me achieve a sea level average PH in my tank.

I do not recommend dosing alkalinity in any form to raise pH and not measuring what happens to alkalinity after you dose it. I cannot see that anything is ever wrong with that advice. Of course there may be scenarios where it works out, but it is never a problem to measure alk and see what happened, and it sometimes is a problem to not measure alkalinity.

Hence, I DO NOT recommend an approach that suggests dosing kalkwasser to raise pH and not monitoring alkalinity, no matter who else uses it on however great of an aquarium.

I dosed kalkwasser for 20 years and for nearly that entire time, I rarely measured alkalinity. But that was because when I started it, I determined what happened to alkalinity, and then once in a great while checked the tank to be sure it was still OK.

 

[michealprater]

I do not recommend dosing alkalinity in any form to raise pH and not measuring what happens to alkalinity after you dose it. I cannot see that anything is ever wrong with that advice. Of course there may be scenarios where it works out, but it is never a problem to measure alk and see what happened, and it sometimes is a problem to not measure alkalinity.

Hence, I DO NOT recommend an approach that suggests dosing kalkwasser to raise pH and not monitoring alkalinity, no matter who else uses it on however great of an aquarium.

I dosed kalkwasser for 20 years and for nearly that entire time, I rarely measured alkalinity. But that was because when I started it, I determined what happened to alkalinity, and then once in a great while checked the tank to be sure it was still OK.

After reading this, I have to say I agree. I would have to concede that maybe I did not used the Meckley method the exact way he describes it, because I did indeed monitor my alkalinity the entire time, and still do. It always stayed within an acceptable range, and unfortunately I cannot say how I would have handled it had it gone outside of normal acceptable range. As always, great chatting with you and getting your insight.