Kalkwasser - Fluid - Questions???

[Robert Scott]

I use a Kalk reactor supplied with RODI from my top off bin set at 3 gal per day to supplement a calcium reactor and to help maintain a stabilized Ph (500 gal reef). Below the level of additional top off due to evaporation. That is supplied independent of kalk reactor using sump float switch and different pump from same top off bin, only occasionally needed. I have found that the kalk potency declines significantly after about 1 wk. As a result, I change out my kalk reactor once per week and the performance remains strong and consistent. It seems to me that using Kalk solely in a top off manner would require significant attention to be effective.

 

[jason2459]

I have never used a kalk reactor but with a still water reservoir the limewater is perfectly fine and usable IME for the 2 weeks I've used it before a refill of RODI water is needed. And even then I don't always add more lime and just stir up what's on the bottom and is again perfectly usable and fully saturated again for the couple weeks it's used until the next refill of RODI water.

Randy just posted a link directly in his article showing the potency of limewater remaining consistent over a period of time. Also in the article he talks about how using a kalk reactor and to me it shows using a kalk reactor there's a good possibility it's not at full potency all the time. A conductivity meter would let you know.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have found that the kalk potency declines significantly after about 1 wk. As a result, I change out my kalk reactor once per week and the performance remains strong and consistent. It seems to me that using Kalk solely in a top off manner would require significant attention to be effective.

Not necessarily so. Limewater is stable for weeks in a large settle reservoir. I measured and published those results.

Lack of potency consistency and control is a reason I don't prefer limewater reactors, however.

 

[2una]

Yes a reactor may be better but my ATO tank is built inside my 2013 Red Sea S - Series back wall.
Have you seen how the S-Series is built?

Maybe this will give you an idea ,this is how i have mine setup on my S650
The main ATO feed line i put a "t" on it - 1 part feeds the ATO - 1 part is the suction line to a DOS that feeds a kalk stirrer that i just setup on a fixed amount per day & the ato picks up any slack.

 

[GoVols]

Maybe this will give you an idea ,this is how i have mine setup on my S650
The main ATO feed line i put a "t" on it - 1 part feeds the ATO - 1 part is the suction line to a DOS that feeds a kalk stirrer that i just setup on a fixed amount per day & the ato picks up any slack.

@2una
It's been awhile and I hope all is well.
I just cleaned the main pump today and (lol) your "watch" technique worked like a charm.

Question:
Want if anything pumps the kalk from the stirrer to you 650 sump or does the your DOS do all the work?
I've got a DOS too but it's been collection dust since last fall.

Can you post pictures of the line that goes to the DOS, down into the stirrer and back to the 650 sump?

Thanks, Freddie

 

[James Kanouff]

I use kalk in all my systems. Most are surpassed ph issues system tanks from C02. One I have a five gallon bucket, i add a cup of kalk powder once every few months and fill the bucket as needed give a quick stir and put a lid on it till its empty again.

Another i have a 50 gallon tank with a tight lid which i basically do the same thing and the bottom is covered with a slurry of months of left over precip and or undssolved kalk.
In the newest garage non c02 issue/ Ca reactor is used system, i have a 100 gallon container which i fill with rodi. Add 3/4 of a gallon of distilled white vinegar, stir then add my powder stir again for 2 minutes, n seal it up for a month. Vinegar is for Carbon source.

none get cleaned out more than once a year.. i don't suggest more than a 2 month supply per batch mix it does seem to degrade a bit but minimal, i never stir after mix. I never let my draw tube get into the slurry!!! And .........I love it!

note* I have never tried a kalk reactor. but did briefly add a BRS reactor up flow very slow" via a liter miter" with 1/4 full of powder in it, to the line of my ATO from the kalk bin to be sure i was getting maxed out KALK. found it wasn't worth the effort/ or making any noticeable difference and eliminated it.. i was also start to cake up and reduce the flow to some degree.

 

[Robert Scott]

OK.. so help me understand. I run a kalk reactor to augment my calcium reactor which also helps maintain a more stable Ph, which it does a good job. I turn off CO2 during lights out and during those several hours I dose 3 gal of RODI through my kalk reactor thus maintaining a relatively stable Ph and basically takes care of top off requirements. I use approximately 2 cups of kalk in a three gallon kalk reactor. With a new batch in the reactor the Ph of my main display is between 8.25 and 8.3 ( monitored by Apex)...after 1 week it drops to 8.22 to 8.23 and my system Kh begins to drop. Thus the reason I replace kalk in the reactor every week. My goal is stability. Changing out kalk in the reactor is easy and relatively inexpensive. If I let it go longer than a week I believe I would have to interject with another process/tweak. Am I missing something?

 

[jason2459]

OK.. so help me understand. I run a kalk reactor to augment my calcium reactor which also helps maintain a more stable Ph, which it does a good job. I turn off CO2 during lights out and during those several hours I dose 3 gal of RODI through my kalk reactor thus maintaining a relatively stable Ph and basically takes care of top off requirements. I use approximately 2 cups of kalk in a three gallon kalk reactor. With a new batch in the reactor the Ph of my main display is between 8.25 and 8.3 ( monitored by Apex)...after 1 week it drops to 8.22 to 8.23 and my system Kh begins to drop. Thus the reason I replace kalk in the reactor every week. My goal is stability. Changing out kalk in the reactor is easy and relatively inexpensive. If I let it go longer than a week I believe I would have to interject with another process/tweak. Am I missing something?

Sorry, I've never used a reactor and don't know much about them. I could hypothesize that the addition of fresh water into the reactor is introducing CO2 and causing the precipitation of the lime into CaCO3. Which would make the slurry at the bottom of the reactor useless unlike the slurry in the bottom of a still water reservoir to still be ok as the top layer of the water films over helping to protect along with having a lid.

Ca(OH)2 + CO2 = CaCO3 + H2O

 

[2una]

@2una
It's been awhile and I hope all is well.
I just cleaned the main pump today and (lol) your "watch" technique worked like a charm.

Question:
Want if anything pumps the kalk from the stirrer to you 650 sump or does the your DOS do all the work?
I've got a DOS too but it's been collection dust since last fall.

Can you post pictures of the line that goes to the DOS, down into the stirrer and back to the 650 sump?

Thanks, Freddie

Hey Freddie - its all pretty spread out for pics but heres a couple - the standard redsea tubing is there on the right,i inserted 1/4" RO tubing inside of it.....I just gravity feed my ATO,thats the 2 soleniods to the left for that.

On the bottom part of the "t" (the blue line) is the feed line for the DOS - that i have mounted on a shelf i fixed to the back of the tank so its out of sight,the tubing just goes from the "t" up & out the back, same area the ato feed line comes into the sump area.

Then the DOS out line just goes to the kalk stirrer in port & the kalk stirrer out port is fed back to the sump area by a line back thru the same opening the ATO line feeds thru.
The stirrer i have just sitting outside the tank over the right side with a bunch of other things i need to get a cupboard for.

It a reef octo ks100 stirrer that i just leave stirring 24/7, i throw 200g into it & swap that out every 4 weeks..
Biggest flaw is i need to setup a float switch for a RO water low alert cos if the RO reservoir emptys then the DOS will start pumping air & that introduces CO2 to the kalk. I'm doing 1.5L/day spread over 24 hours via the DOS,helps to offset the low ph the carx spits out. Front canister is co2 scrubber for skimmer air feed.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

OK.. so help me understand. I run a kalk reactor to augment my calcium reactor which also helps maintain a more stable Ph, which it does a good job. I turn off CO2 during lights out and during those several hours I dose 3 gal of RODI through my kalk reactor thus maintaining a relatively stable Ph and basically takes care of top off requirements. I use approximately 2 cups of kalk in a three gallon kalk reactor. With a new batch in the reactor the Ph of my main display is between 8.25 and 8.3 ( monitored by Apex)...after 1 week it drops to 8.22 to 8.23 and my system Kh begins to drop. Thus the reason I replace kalk in the reactor every week. My goal is stability. Changing out kalk in the reactor is easy and relatively inexpensive. If I let it go longer than a week I believe I would have to interject with another process/tweak. Am I missing something?

lack of good control over the actual dosing rate like you experience in one reason I prefer dosing from a reservoir.

 

[GoVols]

Hey Freddie - its all pretty spread out for pics but heres a couple - the standard redsea tubing is there on the right,i inserted 1/4" RO tubing inside of it.....I just gravity feed my ATO,thats the 2 soleniods to the left for that.

On the bottom part of the "t" (the blue line) is the feed line for the DOS - that i have mounted on a shelf i fixed to the back of the tank so its out of sight,the tubing just goes from the "t" up & out the back, same area the ato feed line comes into the sump area.

Then the DOS out line just goes to the kalk stirrer in port & the kalk stirrer out port is fed back to the sump area by a line back thru the same opening the ATO line feeds thru.
The stirrer i have just sitting outside the tank over the right side with a bunch of other things i need to get a cupboard for.

It a reef octo ks100 stirrer that i just leave stirring 24/7, i throw 200g into it & swap that out every 4 weeks..
Biggest flaw is i need to setup a float switch for a RO water low alert cos if the RO reservoir emptys then the DOS will start pumping air & that introduces CO2 to the kalk. I'm doing 1.5L/day spread over 24 hours via the DOS,helps to offset the low ph the carx spits out. Front canister is co2 scrubber for skimmer air feed.

@2una
Thanks for taking the time to help me.
I'm good with my ATO reserve about never running out but I'm glad you pointed that out about air bubbles in the DOS line.
It looks like you put in soleniods but I still use the factory float valve and it's never failed me but I do keep it cleaned out.

"You've got it down pat" and I understand that even if could have used the clear kalk in the ATO reserve that the float valve would have to go. Kalk would be encrusting and messing up the float valve.

I'm in no rush and very happy with what I dosing for now but Kalk has so many up sides and I just want to get "all" my ducks in a row, for down the road.

Freddie

 

[siggy]

Had to stop using Kalk in my top off . I started using 2 tablespoons in 4.5 gallons topoff , first off it would not take it i had a good layer on the bottom
and i swear the tank had condensation on the inside the next day, so i dumped the T.O. and just put 2 tea spoons per 4.5 gal. What I didn't account for was the AIR conditioning, thinking the cooler the home the less topoff was needed, not the case. It was a warm spell and the ac was running a lot and pulling the moisture out of the house and tank . Alk shot to 9.5 from 7.4 Just trying to keep @ 8-8.4
So with summer swings in Michigan and it can swing 40 degrees in 24 hours, I don't think i will be able to use kalk in my ato. So should i just jump to 2 part? or manual dosing and endure more of the wife's jealousy.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You can use limewater on a dosing pump just like a two part, if you want to dose very specifically. Just dose less than the daily evaporation, and use the ATO to do the rest.

or use a two part. lol

 

[GoVols]

You can use limewater on a dosing pump just like a two part, if you want to dose very specifically. Just dose less than the daily evaporation, and use the ATO to do the rest.

That's what @2una is doing on post #'s 24 and 29.

 

[Lninwa]

To be honest i keep a powerhead in my kalk tank to keep everything mixed constantly, i have a dosing pump tied to my apex that turns on and off based on my tank ph. Seems to work well and havent noticed any adverse effects. Been running this way for 3 months or so.

You should check our BRS they give good reasons to not stir your solution

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You should check our BRS they give good reasons to not stir your solution

No need for BRS. It is a bad idea if air can get in.

 

[GoVols]

@Lninwa @Randy Holmes-Farley
Thank you!!!

;Writing it down...

 

[jason2459]

You should check our BRS they give good reasons to not stir your solution

No need for BRS. It is a bad idea if air can get in.

This guy wrote about that here YEARS ago. He must be really old by now.
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.php

 

[jason2459]

Had to stop using Kalk in my top off . I started using 2 tablespoons in 4.5 gallons topoff , first off it would not take it i had a good layer on the bottom
and i swear the tank had condensation on the inside the next day, so i dumped the T.O. and just put 2 tea spoons per 4.5 gal. What I didn't account for was the AIR conditioning, thinking the cooler the home the less topoff was needed, not the case. It was a warm spell and the ac was running a lot and pulling the moisture out of the house and tank . Alk shot to 9.5 from 7.4 Just trying to keep @ 8-8.4
So with summer swings in Michigan and it can swing 40 degrees in 24 hours, I don't think i will be able to use kalk in my ato. So should i just jump to 2 part? or manual dosing and endure more of the wife's jealousy.

I found this post in another thread that could work for you

Or separate out the limewater dosing from the ATO. I did that and never looked back. But 2 part works too.

Also, using a peristaltic pump you wouldn't have to worry about running dry.

 

[siggy]

Thanks for the wake up, going to order a brs single doser and timer , once i get my head around this i can go the apex & dos wrought later
And yes i have been reading that guys article on alchemy but qwickly hit the saturation point, then it just becomes
Precipitation, will get there tkx