Lanthanum Chloride to Combat High Phosphates

[Steve2020]

First a little history. I had a Dino outbreak that has been completely eradicated for about a month now. One of the methods I used was I allowed my NO3 and PO4 to increase to a higher than my normal levels I maintained. My NO3 is now back to near my target level but my PO4 is continuing to rise. PO4 was at 0.15ppm during my Dino eradication process but has been increasing lately and today measured at 0.25ppm measured twice with Hanna Checker. My normal PO4 prior to the Dino outbreak was maintained at 0.03-0.05ppm and had to dose Trisodium Phosphate occasionally to maintain those levels. One thing I am continuing to do that I did during the Dino eradication process is dosing phyto but only every other day vice daily and yes it is alive phyto. So I am thinking one of two things or both is causing my increase in PO4. It is either the phyto or I am thinking I am getting leaching because I let the PO4 increase to higher than my normal levels and my aquascape absorbed a lot of PO4 and is now leaching back into the water.
I have read many post and articles about using Lanthanum Chloride to control PO4 and there are many different opinions on the subject. I am a little nervous about using it but I am more nervous about my high PO4 levels.
If I end up using LC to control PO4 I want to do it in the safest way. I am thinking of using Brightwell Phosphate-e diluted in a 1.5 liter IV bag and dripping it into a 5 or 10 micron sock that will be partially suspended in the water in my sump and also pump sump water, post filter, to the sock. I am running a filter fleece but it is 50 micron and it only catches about 90-95% of the crud so I would rather not feed the drip to it.
Would this be a safe way to do this and if so what would be the recommended drip rate? I plan on starting with half the recommended amount of Phosphate-e for a 250gal total water volume.
Any recommendations would be appreciated on this method or any other way to do this.

 

[xabo]

This may help: http://larryl.emailplus.org.user.fm/fish/dosing-instructions-phosphate-removers.html

Dosing Lanthanum Chloride - A Personal Experience

I thought I would document my experience so that others might benefit. This is not a recommendation on what to do, just my experience. Suddenly, my SPS, especially some of my largest colonies started to die. It occurred over several weeks. I didn't do anything differently. To make a long...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Steve2020]

This may help: http://larryl.emailplus.org.user.fm/fish/dosing-instructions-phosphate-removers.html

Dosing Lanthanum Chloride - A Personal Experience

I thought I would document my experience so that others might benefit. This is not a recommendation on what to do, just my experience. Suddenly, my SPS, especially some of my largest colonies started to die. It occurred over several weeks. I didn't do anything differently. To make a long...

www.reef2reef.com

Thank you. I did download the calculator earlier today. Looks like a nice tool. I will read that personal experience thread and see if it answers any of my questions.
Appreciate it.

 

[Steve2020]

This may help: http://larryl.emailplus.org.user.fm/fish/dosing-instructions-phosphate-removers.html

Dosing Lanthanum Chloride - A Personal Experience

I thought I would document my experience so that others might benefit. This is not a recommendation on what to do, just my experience. Suddenly, my SPS, especially some of my largest colonies started to die. It occurred over several weeks. I didn't do anything differently. To make a long...

www.reef2reef.com

So, I just read the thread and only have one question. Did he drip into a sock that was fed by his overflow or did he drip into a separate sock he put lets say in the skimmer section and just drip into that sock? If it is the second wouldn't you need to pump sump water into the sock to move water through the sock?

 

[xabo]

From what I've read, most reefers either drip into 5 or 10 micron socks fed by overflow or into the neck of the skimmer. Either way a slow drip is the preferred method, i.e. over a 24-48 hour period.

 

[CoralB]

Hmmm !!! I’ve never dripped it . Always poured it in the overflow in the tank which in turn goes into the sump then in the socks then into the compartment where the skimmer is then into the return section . Never dosed more than 5 ml at a time . Never had or have a issue .

 

[Steve2020]

Yea I have read that too. For me skimmer neck is out of the question due to I have a skimmer CO2 recirc setup. Running a pump to a 5 or 10 micron sock in my skimmer section of my sump should work the same as a sock fed by the overflow plus it shouldn't clog as quick due to most of the detritus and other particles being captured by the fleece filter I would think. If I ran 5-10 micron 7" filter socks in my sock section of the sump I would be changing them every couple of hours. When I ran 100 and 200 micron socks before I added the Fleece Filter I was already changing out socks every few days.

 

[Pistondog]

First a little history. I had a Dino outbreak that has been completely eradicated for about a month now. One of the methods I used was I allowed my NO3 and PO4 to increase to a higher than my normal levels I maintained. My NO3 is now back to near my target level but my PO4 is continuing to rise. PO4 was at 0.15ppm during my Dino eradication process but has been increasing lately and today measured at 0.25ppm measured twice with Hanna Checker. My normal PO4 prior to the Dino outbreak was maintained at 0.03-0.05ppm and had to dose Trisodium Phosphate occasionally to maintain those levels. One thing I am continuing to do that I did during the Dino eradication process is dosing phyto but only every other day vice daily and yes it is alive phyto. So I am thinking one of two things or both is causing my increase in PO4. It is either the phyto or I am thinking I am getting leaching because I let the PO4 increase to higher than my normal levels and my aquascape absorbed a lot of PO4 and is now leaching back into the water.
I have read many post and articles about using Lanthanum Chloride to control PO4 and there are many different opinions on the subject. I am a little nervous about using it but I am more nervous about my high PO4 levels.
If I end up using LC to control PO4 I want to do it in the safest way. I am thinking of using Brightwell Phosphate-e diluted in a 1.5 liter IV bag and dripping it into a 5 or 10 micron sock that will be partially suspended in the water in my sump and also pump sump water, post filter, to the sock. I am running a filter fleece but it is 50 micron and it only catches about 90-95% of the crud so I would rather not feed the drip to it.
Would this be a safe way to do this and if so what would be the recommended drip rate? I plan on starting with half the recommended amount of Phosphate-e for a 250gal total water volume.
Any recommendations would be appreciated on this method or any other way to do this.

Ive dosed lc diluted as you suggest over 6 hours or so. Into the overflow, caught by 5 micron sox.
I would not use lc below 0.5 ppm po4, use gfo.
0.25 ppm is not catastrophic. Sending po4 to zero, or perhaps excess lc is not desirable.

 

[Steve2020]

Ive dosed lc diluted as you suggest over 6 hours or so. Into the overflow, caught by 5 micron sox.
I would not use lc below 0.5 ppm po4, use gfo.
0.25 ppm is not catastrophic. Sending po4 to zero, or perhaps excess lc is not desirable.

Will take that into consideration.
Thanks.

 

[CoralB]

First a little history. I had a Dino outbreak that has been completely eradicated for about a month now. One of the methods I used was I allowed my NO3 and PO4 to increase to a higher than my normal levels I maintained. My NO3 is now back to near my target level but my PO4 is continuing to rise. PO4 was at 0.15ppm during my Dino eradication process but has been increasing lately and today measured at 0.25ppm measured twice with Hanna Checker. My normal PO4 prior to the Dino outbreak was maintained at 0.03-0.05ppm and had to dose Trisodium Phosphate occasionally to maintain those levels. One thing I am continuing to do that I did during the Dino eradication process is dosing phyto but only every other day vice daily and yes it is alive phyto. So I am thinking one of two things or both is causing my increase in PO4. It is either the phyto or I am thinking I am getting leaching because I let the PO4 increase to higher than my normal levels and my aquascape absorbed a lot of PO4 and is now leaching back into the water.
I have read many post and articles about using Lanthanum Chloride to control PO4 and there are many different opinions on the subject. I am a little nervous about using it but I am more nervous about my high PO4 levels.
If I end up using LC to control PO4 I want to do it in the safest way. I am thinking of using Brightwell Phosphate-e diluted in a 1.5 liter IV bag and dripping it into a 5 or 10 micron sock that will be partially suspended in the water in my sump and also pump sump water, post filter, to the sock. I am running a filter fleece but it is 50 micron and it only catches about 90-95% of the crud so I would rather not feed the drip to it.
Would this be a safe way to do this and if so what would be the recommended drip rate? I plan on starting with half the recommended amount of Phosphate-e for a 250gal total water volume.
Any recommendations would be appreciated on this method or any other way to do this.

I understand the responses for caution purposes and I’m certainly not telling to do anything based on what I’m about to say but I’ve been using phosphat-E from bright well for years and I’ve never diluted it , I’ve never used more than what was necessary to bring down my phosphates no more than 0.05 ppm in a 24 hour period til it was in satisfactory levels . I’ve never dripped it ,I just measure out what ever ml needed to bring it down 0.05 and pour it into the return which in turn goes through the mechanical (socks) then thru out the whole system with skimmer then back into the tank . It makes it a little cloudy for about a hour or so , but I’ve never experienced any issues with any sps , pls , softies , for that matter nothing . With my current tank I don’t dose that much maybe once every month or so . I have a large green star polyps rock that usually tells me when phosphates are high as they won’t come out until I bring them down . But I test all my parameters every week at least once so they never get that high .Also I shoot for 0.1 phosphates . I’ve never used any other phosphate reducing products except GFO. And I’ve never heard about any issues with LC except when dosing too much at one time as far as how much levels are dropped . This is a fascinating topic and remember this is my experience and maybe there are other contributing factors .

 

[Sean Clark]

I understand the responses for caution purposes and I’m certainly not telling to do anything based on what I’m about to say but I’ve been using phosphat-E from bright well for years and I’ve never diluted it , I’ve never used more than what was necessary to bring down my phosphates no more than 0.05 ppm in a 24 hour period til it was in satisfactory levels . I’ve never dripped it ,I just measure out what ever ml needed to bring it down 0.05 and pour it into the return which in turn goes through the mechanical (socks) then thru out the whole system with skimmer then back into the tank . It makes it a little cloudy for about a hour or so , but I’ve never experienced any issues with any sps , pls , softies , for that matter nothing . With my current tank I don’t dose that much maybe once every month or so . I have a large green star polyps rock that usually tells me when phosphates are high as they won’t come out until I bring them down . But I test all my parameters every week at least once so they never get that high .Also I shoot for 0.1 phosphates . I’ve never used any other phosphate reducing products except GFO. And I’ve never heard about any issues with LC except when dosing too much at one time as far as how much levels are dropped . This is a fascinating topic and remember this is my experience and maybe there are other contributing factors .

I have had the same experience using SeaKlear over the last decade. No dilution, dosed straight into the sump. I have always experienced the expected result and never had any loss of life. I am convinced that people that have a loss during a Lanthanum Chloride dosing have other undiagnosed issues which may be exacerbated by the addition of LC.

 

[WVNed]

I have Phosban-L going straight into my sump on a doser. My skimmer removes it.
What you see for results may not match the calculator at all at first. There will be some bound phosphate in your system that will make it seem as if it isn't working. When you dose and lower it it will come right back at first.