Large (for me) tank build - Need some help with flow

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

Below is the tank I ordered but I asked Joe to check up as I am wanting to change it to a peninsula style tank. I am building a 10x10 fish room behind the tank. However, Joe and some local LFS feedback has been to also add a closed loop. I don't want to have anything under the tank. For flow here is what I have currently - Abyzz 400 for filtration, Eco M2 for UV on demand (simply with a pipe dropped in the tank for return), 2 - MP60s 6 - MP 40s. I am OK with the 60s being on the long side. But, if I am going to have a closed loop, can the Abyzz handle filtration and the loop plumbed from the sump? Or do I need another pump solely for the loop? I am not sure how a closed loop would be plumbed in a peninsula. This will be a 85% SPS tank.

 

[Snoopy 67]

A close loop requires its own pump, there is almost -0- head on a closed loop.
You could have the holes close to the bottom on the rear panel, but then you have to hide the pipes.

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

Bump - But how would we plumb this?

 

[Snoopy 67]

Ask Joe, he should have some ideas.

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

Ask Joe, he should have some ideas.

I will. And I love GC. Not my first build with them. However, I’m looking for independent thoughts.

 

[Snoopy 67]

All the closed loop tanks I have heard of used the bottom.
@ the bottom of this page are some threads on CL.
You can also do a search.

 

[twentyleagues]

If you are going peninsula your overflows will be moved to one of the short sides (back). You probably know this. Closed loop will most likely pull water from its own "hole" drilled in the bottom, with its own pump. It will then return water usually through pipes again run through the bottom glass in strategic locations for optimal flow throughout the tank. You wont need all those mps, You will still probably want some. With larger peninsula style tanks not sure why more people dont go closed loop. Nothing on any glass side surface to obstruct view.

 

[Reign1]

Yeah the CL is simply intake and return from tank thus you cannot have one pump doing return and CL otherwise tank would literally drain ..

 

[Vivid Creative Aquatics]

Below is the tank I ordered but I asked Joe to check up as I am wanting to change it to a peninsula style tank. I am building a 10x10 fish room behind the tank. However, Joe and some local LFS feedback has been to also add a closed loop. I don't want to have anything under the tank. For flow here is what I have currently - Abyzz 400 for filtration, Eco M2 for UV on demand (simply with a pipe dropped in the tank for return), 2 - MP60s 6 - MP 40s. I am OK with the 60s being on the long side. But, if I am going to have a closed loop, can the Abyzz handle filtration and the loop plumbed from the sump? Or do I need another pump solely for the loop? I am not sure how a closed loop would be plumbed in a peninsula. This will be a 85% SPS tank.

As other have said, a closed loop will need a dedicated pump. By definition the "Closed loop" is not open to the environment, like your return pump/sump system will be. The Abys A400 would certainly be able to drive a nice closed loop with multiple outlets, but you would need a separate pump as your return pump in your sump.

>> I am not sure how a closed loop would be plumbed in a peninsula. This will be a 85% SPS tank.
You'll need at a minimum a drain and a outlet (if not multiple outlets). As far as where those are place, the only one that needs to be below the water line will be the drain. typically this on on a back wall or on the bottom panel.

The closed loop returns can be through the glass, above or below the water line, on he back wall, or off the bottom. They can even be done as a drop down pipes form above. I have seen where the loop is plumbed up and suspended over the top of the tank, and then the return(s) are dropped into the tank from above. If you have a canopy over the tank or if its a in-wall, this is a good way to go, because its ease to change up and revise in the future should you need to.

Since you going SPS dominants you will want at least a few inlets to really get the water moving. you can also use our Random Flow Generator® nozzles for the outlets to create that kind of flow SPS love. If the loop is done right, you may even be able to do this without power heads. At least that's how we run our 134-gallon cube tank in our front lobby. its a 2.5year old thriving mixed reef - build thread link is below.

If you want some help deciding where the inlets on the closed loop should be, let me know - always happy to help.

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

As other have said, a closed loop will need a dedicated pump. By definition the "Closed loop" is not open to the environment, like your return pump/sump system will be. The Abys A400 would certainly be able to drive a nice closed loop with multiple outlets, but you would need a separate pump as your return pump in your sump.

>> I am not sure how a closed loop would be plumbed in a peninsula. This will be a 85% SPS tank.
You'll need at a minimum a drain and a outlet (if not multiple outlets). As far as where those are place, the only one that needs to be below the water line will be the drain. typically this on on a back wall or on the bottom panel.

The closed loop returns can be through the glass, above or below the water line, on he back wall, or off the bottom. They can even be done as a drop down pipes form above. I have seen where the loop is plumbed up and suspended over the top of the tank, and then the return(s) are dropped into the tank from above. If you have a canopy over the tank or if its a in-wall, this is a good way to go, because its ease to change up and revise in the future should you need to.

Since you going SPS dominants you will want at least a few inlets to really get the water moving. you can also use our Random Flow Generator® nozzles for the outlets to create that kind of flow SPS love. If the loop is done right, you may even be able to do this without power heads. At least that's how we run our 134-gallon cube tank in our front lobby. its a 2.5year old thriving mixed reef - build thread link is below.

If you want some help deciding where the inlets on the closed loop should be, let me know - always happy to help.

Sending you a PM.

 

[Stevorino]

The build looks great!

With a peninsula and a fish room right behind the tank, I think a closed loop is a great solution.

My initial inclination would be to put a pair of MP60s across the overflow/back of the tank to shoot the distance, and then have 2-3 closed loops on the bottom.

Build the aquascape to conceal the loop outputs and you have yourself a really clean look and great flow.

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

@Stevorino Here is what Joe and I are. But reading @Vivid Creative Aquatics, he has me thinking that 3rd hole in the bottom should also be a return and put the 2inch drain on the short side. I super happy that I shifted gears and went with a peninsula, my wife actually green lit a little more construction for the fish room. Our deal is that if I ever leave the hobby, it gets converted to a butler's kitchen. After listening to @Tidal Gardens talk about the left handed Hayward bulkheads, I decided to go with them, but Joe needs the specs Monday.

 

[Vivid Creative Aquatics]

Sending you a PM.

Got your PM - once we have a solution for the Closed loop lets bring it back here and share the results.

I think this going to ab a super-cool build.

 

[twentyleagues]

@Stevorino Here is what Joe and I are. But reading @Vivid Creative Aquatics, he has me thinking that 3rd hole in the bottom should also be a return and put the 2inch drain on the short side. I super happy that I shifted gears and went with a peninsula, my wife actually green lit a little more construction for the fish room. Our deal is that if I ever leave the hobby, it gets converted to a butler's kitchen. After listening to @Tidal Gardens talk about the left handed Hayward bulkheads, I decided to go with them, but Joe needs the specs Monday.

I am confused on the bottom pic. But, I cant wait to see this progress.

Got your PM - once we have a solution for the Closed loop lets bring it back here and share the results.

I think this going to ab a super-cool build.

Cant wait love big peninsula builds. Not sure why a lot dont go with closed loop on them. I certainly would. Why would you want to look at anything on the end or side glass? On my 80 cube I ran the returns though the canopy and put your rfgs on both, and my nero 5 is on the back wall. I wish it didnt have a corner overflow messing up part of the one side.

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

I am confused on the bottom pic. But, I cant wait to see this progress.


Cant wait love big peninsula builds. Not sure why a lot dont go with closed loop on them. I certainly would. Why would you want to look at anything on the end or side glass? On my 80 cube I ran the returns though the canopy and put your rfgs on both, and my nero 5 is on the back wall. I wish it didnt have a corner overflow messing up part of the one side.

@twentyleagues Below is the short side looking down from the other end (8 foot away) through the peninsula. The red things are my artistic way of demonstrating the two returns that will come out of the return box and over the glass (break siphon). Then I was thinking 2 MP60's and 3 MP40s.

 

[twentyleagues]

@twentyleagues Below is the short side looking down from the other end (8 foot away) through the peninsula. The red things are my artistic way of demonstrating the two returns that will come out of the return box and over the glass (break siphon). Then I was thinking 2 MP60's and 3 MP40s.

So thats on a viewing panel? Its not the end of the world especially if you dont mind, it is your tank after all. Like I said I'd not want anything blocking my view or "cluttering" up the tank. If the closed loop was run through the bottom or inside a canopy you could probably do away with anything on any viewing panels. Through the bottom would involve more holes in more locations though. The outputs could be concealed withing rock structures with vca nozzles to provide the random flow that would be lost from the mps. If they were through a canopy above the tank ( better I think) you could introduce random flow via vca nozzles (obviously) and things like seaswirls. If I were getting a custom large tank I would make it as aesthetic as possible. I am not in the position to do so atm so I am still stuck with mass produced tanks for the most part that are not always "customizable", I try my best though lol. I am not an expert on this just my thoughts. I am sure regardless of how you proceed it will be very nice.

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

So thats on a viewing panel? Its not the end of the world especially if you dont mind, it is your tank after all. Like I said I'd not want anything blocking my view or "cluttering" up the tank. If the closed loop was run through the bottom or inside a canopy you could probably do away with anything on any viewing panels. Through the bottom would involve more holes in more locations though. The outputs could be concealed withing rock structures with vca nozzles to provide the random flow that would be lost from the mps. If they were through a canopy above the tank ( better I think) you could introduce random flow via vca nozzles (obviously) and things like seaswirls. If I were getting a custom large tank I would make it as aesthetic as possible. I am not in the position to do so atm so I am still stuck with mass produced tanks for the most part that are not always "customizable", I try my best though lol. I am not an expert on this just my thoughts. I am sure regardless of how you proceed it will be very nice.

Clearly my wife is correct. I don't communicate well, lol.

No, that isn't the viewing end, that's the "business end". I don't want anyone on the glass of the viewing end. I also likely will have a canopy, but not day one.

My tank will have the same external overflow box as this. This is where the closed loop drain (likely will be) and where the MP40/60s would be. On the left "the viewing" panel won't have anything.

 

[twentyleagues]

Clearly my wife is correct. I don't communicate well, lol.

No, that isn't the viewing end, that's the "business end". I don't want anyone on the glass of the viewing end. I also likely will have a canopy, but not day one.

My tank will have the same external overflow box as this. This is where the closed loop drain (likely will be) and where the MP40/60s would be. On the left "the viewing" panel won't have anything.

ahh ok great! Unfortunately she may be right...lol or I'm just dumb. Maybe my ex was right after all

 

[Stevorino]

@Stevorino Here is what Joe and I are. But reading @Vivid Creative Aquatics, he has me thinking that 3rd hole in the bottom should also be a return and put the 2inch drain on the short side. I super happy that I shifted gears and went with a peninsula, my wife actually green lit a little more construction for the fish room. Our deal is that if I ever leave the hobby, it gets converted to a butler's kitchen. After listening to @Tidal Gardens talk about the left handed Hayward bulkheads, I decided to go with them, but Joe needs the specs Monday.

This looks amazing!!

I have never built a closed loop for something this size, so I totally defer to @Vivid Creative Aquatics and Joe on dialing in the bulkhead sizes and ins/outs..... but this looks really amazing and I think you are going to be super happy with it!

 

[Vivid Creative Aquatics]

OK - here's what I'm thinking. its pretty ambitions, but, I think its possible to do this without powerhead, or at least with very minimal additional flow

The closed loop will utilize both 1in and 3/4in RFGs with 4 man outlets. Since you'll be using the Abyzz A400 as your Closed Loop pump, you will have plenty of flow to drive this many RFGs

here's the overview - starting from the end of the tank to the back wall

Outlet at the end of the tank will be a manifold with 4, 3/4in RFGs on stand pipe that you can be set at various heights.

The two in the middle and on the back wall will act as drivers to push flow down the length of the tank, with the 4 at the breaking up the forward flow. This will create a nice and strong, randomzied undertow that will draw its way back to the drain on the back wall.

The return lines from the sump will flank the overflow and have 1in RFGs - one on each side the the overflow.

Obviously, run this past your tank builder and make sure the bulkheads positions and sizes will work.

What do you think?