LCA Dinoflagellates- Have you beaten them?

[mcarroll]

Sorry Po4 was 0.21

That's a good number, just a little higher than you typically see. Definitely not a problem.

How will the nutrients balance out if I’m not actively removing them? Only way to remove them is by feeding less, water changes, mechanical filtration etc etc

By "balance out" do you mean "lower"?

I would not purposefully lower them, and they do not seem out of balance.

What I mean by balancing things out is allowing the tank to settle into its own stability around your basic husbandry routines. (Not carbon dosing or anything like that.)

This is why I thought I would carbon dose to try and get them in a better shape, I wasn’t going to lower them down to near zero.

Lower just isn't better.

The only real problem to have with nutrients in a coral reef tank is to not have enough.

If you could feed corals more reliably (we can't) then dissolved nutrients would matter MUCH LESS.

The way things are they matter a lot....so allow the tank's natural nutrient levels to settle in.

Let "out of balance" mean seeing NO3 or PO4 at or near zero. (Both near zero *might* be fine....balanced. Depends on the state of the rest of the tank though.)

So going forward, will weekly water changes be okay or should I just leave it all alone and just dose my all for reef to keep Alk,Mg,Cal in check? I’m still dosing Phytoplankton and Copepods.

Many thanks

Like I said if you want to do water changes for different husbandry reasons (ie tank cleaning; trace element replenishment, salinity corrections, etc, etc) then go ahead with your normal routine.....just dose the new water with NO3 and PO4 (as mentioned previously) so the water change does not drop the tank's nutrient levels.

Otherwise, yeah just maintain the Big Three and keep the basics nailed, let some time pass, and see how things stabilize.

One thing I just wondered mostly for my own curiosity: Do you happen to have a pic of the tank "at its worst" with dino's?

 

[TheDon]

Yes

 

[Poseidon03]

Sorry Po4 was 0.21

How will the nutrients balance out if I’m not actively removing them? Only way to remove them is by feeding less, water changes, mechanical filtration etc etc if I do nothing they will just eventually go back up.

This is why I thought I would carbon dose to try and get them in a better shape, I wasn’t going to lower them down to near zero.

So going forward, will weekly water changes be okay or should I just leave it all alone and just dose my all for reef to keep Alk,Mg,Cal in check? I’m still dosing Phytoplankton and Copepods.

Many thanks

.21 ppm PO4 is on the higher end, but still safe. 34ppm NO3 is the same. Given your corals you have, I don't see a reason to try to chase a "perfect" number. Focus on trends. .21 PO4 and 34 NO3 and they are raising? That's an issue long term that needs fixed. Your nutrient export or input needs adjusted. .05 PO4 and 10 NO3 and trending down? That's a different issue long term that needs fixed. Work on fixing the trend rather than the number itself. You want the numbers to be moving in the right direction.

100 NO3 and .5 PO4, but corals look fine? Same idea. Don't adjust it quickly because that is what creates the uglies breakout. The numbers help the coral health and toughness, but the swings are ultimately what kills the coral.

Your tank looks great. That is normal dusting of the sand and is just part of the maintenance and tinkering of the hobby. If you want help getting rid of that dust on the sand, I'd recommend a more robust cleaning crew. Get some nissarius snails and an conch to help stir up your sand bed and get rid of the detritus.

 

[TheDon]

.21 ppm PO4 is on the higher end, but still safe. 34ppm NO3 is the same. Given your corals you have, I don't see a reason to try to chase a "perfect" number. Focus on trends. .21 PO4 and 34 NO3 and they are raising? That's an issue long term that needs fixed. Your nutrient export or input needs adjusted. .05 PO4 and 10 NO3 and trending down? That's a different issue long term that needs fixed. Work on fixing the trend rather than the number itself. You want the numbers to be moving in the right direction.

100 NO3 and .5 PO4, but corals look fine? Same idea. Don't adjust it quickly because that is what creates the uglies breakout. The numbers help the coral health and toughness, but the swings are ultimately what kills the coral.

Your tank looks great. That is normal dusting of the sand and is just part of the maintenance and tinkering of the hobby. If you want help getting rid of that dust on the sand, I'd recommend a more robust cleaning crew. Get some nissarius snails and an conch to help stir up your sand bed and get rid of the detritus.

Before dinos my nutrients were around - Po4 0.05 No3 10. Then once I got a microscope sample done and confirmed LCA I stopped water changes and tried to increase biodiversity with adding loads of pods and dosing Phytoplankton daily. If it’s normal then why am I still seeing LCA in samples? Albeit only one or two per slide but the spots are getting darker.

I believe no water changes and just my reefmat 250/Skimmer exporting wasn’t enough and this has lead to an increase in my numbers. Maybe I was over feeding? Qrt sheet of nori in clip, 2 Mysis frozen cubes (thawed and rinsed) Some days I only use one cube and feed some pellets.
Stocking…
One spot foxface
Tomini Tang
2 X Clowns
Coral Goby
Firefish
Yellow Coris Wrasse
Cleaner shrimp
Around 8/9 trochus snails
4 Bumblebee snails
5 Nassarius Snails
3 Conches (Did have 2 but added another recently)

 

[BryanM]

I don't think you're over feeding. I autofeed 3x a day tdo chromoboost, a full sheet of nori, and semi feed frozen foods.

I do not have an answer for beating dinos. I did so many things to get past them I don't actually know what worked. Perseverance probably.

Here's what I think worked: A combo of vacuuming them out through filter socks and re-using the water, a 3 day blackout, and installing a UV. A 4 month battle that sucked.

 

[Poseidon03]

Before dinos my nutrients were around - Po4 0.05 No3 10. Then once I got a microscope sample done and confirmed LCA I stopped water changes and tried to increase biodiversity with adding loads of pods and dosing Phytoplankton daily. If it’s normal then why am I still seeing LCA in samples? Albeit only one or two per slide but the spots are getting darker.

I believe no water changes and just my reefmat 250/Skimmer exporting wasn’t enough and this has lead to an increase in my numbers. Maybe I was over feeding? Qrt sheet of nori in clip, 2 Mysis frozen cubes (thawed and rinsed) Some days I only use one cube and feed some pellets.
Stocking…
One spot foxface
Tomini Tang
2 X Clowns
Coral Goby
Firefish
Yellow Coris Wrasse
Cleaner shrimp
Around 8/9 trochus snails
4 Bumblebee snails
5 Nassarius Snails
3 Conches (Did have 2 but added another recently)

Honestly, at your stage in the hobby and your tank age, your tank looks amazing. You're doing a great job. Even at its worst, it looks better than most at your stage. I see green on rocks, coraline starting to grow and the normal dusting on the sand. This is all beneficial to the longevity of the tank.

The dusting can be helped with more cleanup crew, elbows grease, and time. You want to eliminate the buildup that is causing it, while giving more time for the stuff that eats it to populate the tank. What size tank is it? From the images, I'd guess somewhere around 30-70 gal, but don't want to assume.

About the dinos, don't change anything based on what you can see in a microscope. They are a normal part of the process and honestly help your tank. Think of them like sugar and fat in your blood. They help your body, but when there's too much, its a problem. You want a system of a ton of different organisms and for none of them to out compete the others.

 

[TheDon]

I don't think you're over feeding. I autofeed 3x a day tdo chromoboost, a full sheet of nori, and semi feed frozen foods.

I do not have an answer for beating dinos. I did so many things to get past them I don't actually know what worked. Perseverance probably.

Here's what I think worked: A combo of vacuuming them out through filter socks and re-using the water, a 3 day blackout, and installing a UV. A 4 month battle that sucked.

Yeah unfortunately UV won’t help unless it’s the one I have (UV Sandbed sweeper) When I use this, next day sand is clean! My worry about using this regularly is.. Will it be killing off my copepods and other biodiversity that I’m trying to create. I feel the need to keep on top of water changes as tanks in living room and it can smell like an aquarium shop after leaving it for a few weeks Plus there’s the issue of increasing Po4/No3

 

[TheDon]

Honestly, at your stage in the hobby and your tank age, your tank looks amazing. You're doing a great job. Even at its worst, it looks better than most at your stage. I see green on rocks, coraline starting to grow and the normal dusting on the sand. This is all beneficial to the longevity of the tank.

The dusting can be helped with more cleanup crew, elbows grease, and time. You want to eliminate the buildup that is causing it, while giving more time for the stuff that eats it to populate the tank. What size tank is it? From the images, I'd guess somewhere around 30-70 gal, but don't want to assume.

About the dinos, don't change anything based on what you can see in a microscope. They are a normal part of the process and honestly help your tank. Think of them like sugar and fat in your blood. They help your body, but when there's too much, its a problem. You want a system of a ton of different organisms and for none of them to out compete the others.

Thank you for the kind words, it’s a Reefer 250G3
Yeah rocks and back have got good coraline growth and corals are all full and extending! I’m trying not to rush this tank, so stayed with softies and a few LPS. Not making the mistake of buying loads of high end corals only for them to melt away!

 

[BryanM]

Yeah unfortunately UV won’t help unless it’s the one I have (UV Sandbed sweeper) When I use this, next day sand is clean! My worry about using this regularly is.. Will it be killing off my copepods and other biodiversity that I’m trying to create. I feel the need to keep on top of water changes as tanks in living room and it can smell like an aquarium shop after leaving it for a few weeks Plus there’s the issue of increasing Po4/No3

Fair question re: will it kill off copepods/etc. But while you're battling dinos, at least for me: I didn't care.

Dinos need to go, and you can rebuild after.