LED or T5?

[StatelineReefer]

If I were to build an LED light, I'd use these LEDs. I'm discussing spectral quality, not intensity:

I did build an LED light, and I used these LEDs.

365nm - The same output, more or less, of the mercurt spike seen in lamps containing mercury. I have some evidence that this can slightly increase coloration in some corals.
400nm - Has some UV-A as well. Useful in photosynthesis and color generation.
730-740nm - Selectively absorbed by Pigment 700 found in Photosystem I. Possibly helps in reducing light-induced stresses in high light situations.

5 '380-840 multispectrum' yeah, the LED Grow Light pink.

Perhaps a little too deep into the reds for my tastes, but it hits a part of the spectrum no other diodes hit.

420nm - Same as 400nm, without the UV.

5 420nm Violet LEDs, center of fixture.

470nm - The universal light for showcasing coral fluorescence.

10 450nm 'royal blues' Pretty much a mainstay for deep blue coverage

10 470nm 'true blue'

510nm - Absorbed by the accessory pigment peridinin and transferred to special chlorphylls in reaction centers.

5 510nm "Turquoise" diodes

Cool/Warm White LEDs - Provides blue and red light, along with some green. Useful in photosynthesis and is reflected by fishes, making them appear 'natural.'

10 'cool white' 6500 kelvin LEDs

10 'blue white' 12000-15000 kelvin LEDs... Due to binning, they do not all maintain the same range, can verify.

I skipped the warm white due to the extra range the multispectrum and 510nm's offer. I was pleased with the result to my eye, but I would love to one day to a par and spectrum analysis of the light overall.

587nm - There is some evidence that yellow light can generate red chromoproteins in corals.

This was the only LED I neglected from your list, mainly for aesthetic reasons. While I do want my corals to flourish, I also want to enjoy viewing them, I can only hope that the 6500k and 12-15000k lights provide enough yellow to accommodate the corals I'll be holding.

The actual light... Not white balanced, this was just proof to a friend that I'd gotten it working.

 

[A. grandis]

Like to see that quantified or it's just propaganda..

supplementing MH OR LED w/ t5's maybe..

"Best of 2019" has many options and personal opinions around the globe, Oreo. The video shows one of them and I would say it's most likely a marketing "opinion" with a bit of sales' data (?)... They get money out of the videos they make. They do that for a living. Nothing wrong with that.
What is yours? Everyone will say different...
And we tend to believe in what we choose to, specially if you choose only the "looks", like most of the people are doing nowadays. That reflects on the market and the best example is the G5 Blue. Selling strategy is still the best way to make/sell aquarium products.
Everyone will choose different "best results" too.
But yes, there are a lot of people going back to metal halide/T5s due to the "better" results (growth and colors) as they claim, so...
Terra Ferma is actually correct saying that.

Edit:
The best... T5s for growth and metabolic functions... LEDs for looks.

I go further and say that with halides and T5s we win twice for growth, color and metabolic functions with an even better looks.

 

[oreo54]

"Best of 2019" has many options and personal opinions around the globe, Oreo. The video shows one of them and I would say it's most likely a marketing "opinion" with a bit of sales' data (?)... They get money out of the videos they make. They do that for a living. Nothing wrong with that.
What is yours? Everyone will say different...
And we tend to believe in what we choose to, specially if you choose only the "looks", like most of the people are doing nowadays. That reflects on the market and the best example is the G5 Blue. Selling strategy is still the best way to make/sell aquarium products.
Everyone will choose different "best results" too.
But yes, there are a lot of people going back to metal halide/T5s due to the "better" results (growth and colors) as they claim, so...
Terra Ferma is actually correct saying that.

Edit:
The best... T5s for growth and metabolic functions... LEDs for looks.

I go further and say that with halides and T5s we win twice for growth, color and metabolic functions with an even better looks.

They sell it all ..right?

Metal Halide Lighting Fixtures & Reflectors

We carry a variety of Metal Halide Light Fixtures that will be some of the easiest lights to set up and get running while producing super bright clean light with a shimmer that replicates what you would see in the ocean. With Metal Halide fixtures from Reef Brite and Hamilton available lighting...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

As to "one" opinion.. same goes for you right?

Evn a dozen isn't "every one" ect..

Think the vid was "fair and balanced"...
If halides were so "special" why the need to supplement them?
Halides for growth but tube for looks right?

there are a lot of people

no data.. no real fact..

"As I see it" their wish list.. 1) no pucks and 2) no dozens of colors..at least not properly blended.
I have no real issue w/ that..
I have no idea why "pucks" got so entrenched.. but its not the diodes that are the issue..

Hybrid fixtures put 200+Watts of fairly efficient photon emitters over a tank w/ a wide.. and dispersed delivery..
If you put 200+ Watts of LEDs in there the line between the 2 fades..as to which adds growth the most..or color for that matter.

ATI Blue Plus and Giesemann Actinic Blue
Blue are ATI, Red are Giesemann.

ATI Blue plus is one of the simplist spectrums..
Those practically single nm spikes are hard to emulate though..

ATI & Giesemann T5 Comparison – Part 3 | AquaNerd

Side by comparison of the ATI & Giesemann T5 Lamps

aquanerd.com

Maybe LEDs just got over comlicated and you didn't know how to use them..

 

[A. grandis]

They sell it all ..right?

Metal Halide Lighting Fixtures & Reflectors

We carry a variety of Metal Halide Light Fixtures that will be some of the easiest lights to set up and get running while producing super bright clean light with a shimmer that replicates what you would see in the ocean. With Metal Halide fixtures from Reef Brite and Hamilton available lighting...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

As to "one" opinion.. same goes for you right?

Evn a dozen isn't "every one" ect..

Think the vid was "fair and balanced"...
If halides were so "special" why the need to supplement them?
Halides for growth but tube for looks right?

no data.. no real fact..

"As I see it" their wish list.. 1) no pucks and 2) no dozens of colors..at least not properly blended.
I have no real issue w/ that..
I have no idea why "pucks" got so entrenched.. but its not the diodes that are the issue..

Hybrid fixtures put 200+Watts of fairly efficient photon emitters over a tank w/ a wide.. and dispersed delivery..
If you put 200+ Watts of LEDs in there the line between the 2 fades..as to which adds growth the most..or color for that matter.

ATI Blue Plus and Giesemann Actinic Blue
Blue are ATI, Red are Giesemann.

ATI Blue plus is one of the simplist spectrums..
Those practically single nm spikes are hard to emulate though..

ATI & Giesemann T5 Comparison – Part 3 | AquaNerd

Side by comparison of the ATI & Giesemann T5 Lamps

aquanerd.com

Halides don't need supplementation at all, Oreo.
You posted that video. I just wanted you to see what they said in the middle of it about what they know in regards to the LED/T5 relationship. That is what they believe and preach, Sr. Go argue with them. You brought up that video...
If one day you decide to set up a reef tank and try halides you will thank me for this!! Like many did!!!
Good night, Oreo.

 

[Dana Riddle]

I did build an LED light, and I used these LEDs.



5 '380-840 multispectrum' yeah, the LED Grow Light pink.

Perhaps a little too deep into the reds for my tastes, but it hits a part of the spectrum no other diodes hit.



5 420nm Violet LEDs, center of fixture.



10 450nm 'royal blues' Pretty much a mainstay for deep blue coverage

10 470nm 'true blue'



5 510nm "Turquoise" diodes



10 'cool white' 6500 kelvin LEDs

10 'blue white' 12000-15000 kelvin LEDs... Due to binning, they do not all maintain the same range, can verify.

I skipped the warm white due to the extra range the multispectrum and 510nm's offer. I was pleased with the result to my eye, but I would love to one day to a par and spectrum analysis of the light overall.


This was the only LED I neglected from your list, mainly for aesthetic reasons. While I do want my corals to flourish, I also want to enjoy viewing them, I can only hope that the 6500k and 12-15000k lights provide enough yellow to accommodate the corals I'll be holding.

The actual light... Not white balanced, this was just proof to a friend that I'd gotten it working.

Nice! And thanks for sharing. The yellow LED's spectrum *might* be useful in promoting a pink mon-fluorescent chromoprotein in a few corals (Seriatopora, if my poor memory serves me.)

 

[oreo54]

Halides don't need supplementation at all, Oreo.
You posted that video. I just wanted you to see what they said in the middle of it about what they know in regards to the LED/T5 relationship. That is what they believe and preach, Sr. Go argue with them. You brought up that video...
If one day you decide to set up a reef tank and try halides you will thank me for this!! Like many did!!!
Good night, Oreo.

Apologies for the last line above.. It was a bit cruder than intended..
If you ever plan on going onto the dark side I'll help you as well..

 

[Bpb]

Apologies for the last line above.. It was a bit cruder than intended..
If you ever plan on going onto the dark side I'll help you as well..

Solid looking planted scape. I attempted planted tanks for many years and just could never find any real respectable success. Challenge after challenge. I have had an easier time growing sps than I had creating a clean colorful Dutch aqua scape. Would love to try again one day.

 

[oreo54]

I have had an easier time growing sps than I had creating a clean colorful Dutch aqua scape.

Funny huh..

 

[Bpb]

Funny huh..

Well to be fair I did planted tanks for many years before attempting saltwater. So I didn’t have expectations or assumptions.

 

[TerraFerma]

Like to see that quantified or it's just propaganda..

supplementing MH OR LED w/ t5's maybe..

The sad truth is no one with money cares about LED's vs. MH/T5 as it pertains to captive coral growth and color rendering. If some nice man or woman gave Dana 5 million bucks to sort this out I'm sure he could come away with amazing things. But that will never happen (fingers crossed it does Dana...). The folks that make high end LED fixtures...will tell you whatever they can get away with to convince

The trick with LED's is the space out the diodes. Ecotech just got that memo and I feel horrible for everyone trying to sell their G4 and earlier Radion fixtures. LED's can grow corals just fine - although they have spread limitations -

They sell it all ..right?

Metal Halide Lighting Fixtures & Reflectors

We carry a variety of Metal Halide Light Fixtures that will be some of the easiest lights to set up and get running while producing super bright clean light with a shimmer that replicates what you would see in the ocean. With Metal Halide fixtures from Reef Brite and Hamilton available lighting...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

As to "one" opinion.. same goes for you right?

Evn a dozen isn't "every one" ect..

Think the vid was "fair and balanced"...
If halides were so "special" why the need to supplement them?
Halides for growth but tube for looks right?

no data.. no real fact..

"As I see it" their wish list.. 1) no pucks and 2) no dozens of colors..at least not properly blended.
I have no real issue w/ that..
I have no idea why "pucks" got so entrenched.. but its not the diodes that are the issue..

Hybrid fixtures put 200+Watts of fairly efficient photon emitters over a tank w/ a wide.. and dispersed delivery..
If you put 200+ Watts of LEDs in there the line between the 2 fades..as to which adds growth the most..or color for that matter.

ATI Blue Plus and Giesemann Actinic Blue
Blue are ATI, Red are Giesemann.

ATI Blue plus is one of the simplist spectrums..
Those practically single nm spikes are hard to emulate though..

ATI & Giesemann T5 Comparison – Part 3 | AquaNerd

Side by comparison of the ATI & Giesemann T5 Lamps

aquanerd.com

Maybe LEDs just got over comlicated and you didn't know how to use them..

Pucks are popular because it's cheaper than individual diodes on their own star boards when you use higher quality diodes and sell in volume.

Instead of ordering a bunch of individual leds on star boards - you tell china just stick em all on a big circle thermal mount. Saves money out of the gate and saves money once you get the thing and have to make a fixture around it.

The black box fixtures use individually mounted LED's because they use cheaper LED's and probably don't have enough volume to get a run of pucks to their specs (which is usually just royal blue and white anyways). On the other end of the scale is Orphek using individual LED's to get proper spread. But they use high quality top bin name brand LED's and its reflected in their prices.

 

[Aardvark1134]

Disagree completly the secret is lots pucks as having your individual colors spread out makes your tank look like disco poop unless you are mounting them like 30 inches above the tank. The issue is they are making high watt pucks when what you need is alot of cheap lower watt pucks. The nasty colored discoball is going nowhere near my tank ever. I would sooner use 16xt5s

 

[Luis1992]

Hybrid is the way to go!!

 

[Aardvark1134]

I used to think so...it's what I have...but I am strongly considering going Kessil/Orphek bars instead of the current kessil/t5s

 

[TerraFerma]

Disagree completly the secret is lots pucks as having your individual colors spread out makes your tank look like disco poop unless you are mounting them like 30 inches above the tank. The issue is they are making high watt pucks when what you need is alot of cheap lower watt pucks. The nasty colored discoball is going nowhere near my tank ever. I would sooner use 16xt5s

Were talking about what is best for coral - even light coverage - not what is best to your eye, although the right lenses can reduce disco ball. If you are willing to sacrifice what is best for coral to please your eye then that's a trade off you are willing to make. And as you mentioned T5 would alleviate these issues.

Multiple/many pucks is a great idea. But there is a sunk cost per puck so manufacturers try to cram as many led's on them as is feasible.

The Phillips CoralCare Gen 2's look interesting. I'd play around with those if they weren't so expensive.

 

[Aardvark1134]

If you want to talk about what is best for corals I will raise you every major brand of led and even the chinese black boxes, allong with t5, metal halides, and even standard floresent bulbs of the right spectrum will grow corals well and make them very happy if you use enough of them with the right settings. The whole which lights will grow corals well is nonsence as 99% of them will.

 

[Robert S]

I have a standard 55 and was wondering if T5 or LED would be better for my system. I want to keep mostly lps like acans. Maybe some softies too. If you have any suggestions feel free. I was looking for a lower budget light.
thanks.

I use them both....love my led Radion xr15 gen 4

 

[A. grandis]

If you want to talk about what is best for corals I will raise you every major brand of led and even the chinese black boxes, allong with t5, metal halides, and even standard floresent bulbs of the right spectrum will grow corals well and make them very happy if you use enough of them with the right settings. The whole which lights will grow corals well is nonsence as 99% of them will.

It is a "matter of taste", like many say. Specially because what's "better" for one won't necessarily be "better" for another person. Everything becomes relative. That's why we need to respect different opinions.

 

[TMC1313]

After many years of using halides supplemented with led's (reef reefbrite xho) I finally thought I would take a crack and challenge myself with led only. Howevever, I wasn't happy with any of the commercially available fixtures. I liked the physical looks of them, but not the actual led layouts. Point being, IMO i agree with Aardvark1134. More pucks, but panel style. This is how I did my DIY using nanobox V3 arrays. So far so good on my SPS dominant tank. I'm getting really good spread, no shadowing and excellent color blending. I realize this thread has gotten off topic from the OP, but with all this talk I wanted to share.

 

[fishybizzness]

Is the OP even following this thread anymore? I just want to know what light they eventually decided on!! Lol

 

[Jeeperz]

Why would they actually produce a bulb with so much UV for terrestrial plants then? They produce a lot of bulbs with a high UV emission for terrestrial plants. I would think they know what they are doing.
Also, we have metal halides for reefs for a long long time with UV emission and they work like no other artificial light source in the market. I believe they know what they're doing as well.
Edit: What about the shallow water corals in the ocean? Tide pools? There are beautiful healthy colorful corals there!! Huge amounts of UV!

UVb is essential for large fruit and flowers on many plants, to the point where supplement UVb lights can help increase yield and quality.