LEDZeal Alpha 120 spectrum selection

[skyrne_isk]

So I am looking at the following fixture to try out for fun: http://www.ledzeal.com/p50.html

Cool part - they will let you customize the layout, so I had the following in mind (see the notes) as tweaks to their base layout:

But not sure what those of you who have built their own fixtures would say. I think it needs neutral white added to
balance the cyan (maybe on channel 2, switch two 12000K w 4500k) but my preference is to not run a fully red or green LED at all. I do supplement with VHO and T5, so I can certainly tweak whatever layout color I end up w by switching out T5s.

 

[skyrne_isk]

The channels are independently dimmed and all LEDs are dual core 5w. I had wanted to run mint on channel 3 along with the UV, but cyan is closest they can do.

I guess my primary goal here is that since most folks on radion G4 pros are running the AB plus schedule, what does that look like if you were to generally run all the channels on this light at hundred percent but just adjust the color mixing of the diodes instead of intensity. Is my general understanding correct that the most common lighting schedule is running the red and greens at 20% while the others are almost wide open?

 

[skyrne_isk]

Here is the current config I am working with:
Ch1: 6x 460nm
Ch2: 4x 12000K, 2x 6000K
Ch3: 4x 510nm, 2x 410nm
Ch4: 4x 450nm, 2x 460nm

Is it a mistake to try and avoid running green and red LEDs by creeping into the green spectrum by shifting 4 LEDs from 460 to 510 and into red by shifting 2 12000K LEDs to 6000K?

By looking at what I have above, on paper it feels like Ch4 should just be 6x 450... any feedback?

Am trying to get my order put in today - any help is welcome.

 

[oreo54]

You know.. some of this depends on your preferred look and maximizing for it..
Play w/ this for your decisions..

SPECTRA

SPECTRA can perform the optical simulation of many required for coral breeding. SPECTRAはサンゴ飼育に必要な多くの光学シミュレーションを行う事が可能です。

spectra.1023world.net

Use generic diodes


Personally ,seeing what most people prefer.. initial thought is too much reg. blue. No cyan..
One red and one green diode seem pointless and a waste of space
IF one shifts the K value of the whites to a lower K (>8000k), plenty of red/green.

4 rb, 2 "uv".. for one channel, your "actinic" channel
6 cyan for your "aqua" tone.
6 rb channel
6 neutral white..(4-5000k for red/green component)

totals:
10 royal blue
2 "uv" (410nm-ish)
6 cyan
6 neutral white...

There is infinite amount of choices and few really "wrong" ones as long as you provide enough overall photons..
and skew to the blue............

2:1 ratio of "blue" to white..
cyan for err "look". Cyan is missing on most LED's yet present in quantity in most tubes and MH's.
Consider it sort of the secret sauce.

IF you want an overall more ""neutral" looking tank in the 14,000K-ish look..diodes need to be adjusted accordingly.
You can get it w/ the above but at a severe cost in output..
you can hit 18000-10000k w/ dimming of the rb and "actinic" channel.


NOTE and DISCLAIMER .. strictly for discussion..

I'd be surprised if you can get "mint" which is just royal blue w/ a broad spectrum green phosphor..
IF you can.. I'd suggest adding it to the "White" channel..

Above overall tone should be from rich blue to more "aqua".. never a "purple" tone.. That would be part of your decision as to "look"...

 

[skyrne_isk]

You know.. some of this depends on your preferred look and maximizing for it..
Play w/ this for your decisions..

SPECTRA

SPECTRA can perform the optical simulation of many required for coral breeding. SPECTRAはサンゴ飼育に必要な多くの光学シミュレーションを行う事が可能です。

spectra.1023world.net

Use generic diodes


Personally ,seeing what most people prefer.. initial thought is too much reg. blue. No cyan..
One red and one green diode seem pointless and a waste of space
IF one shifts the K value of the whites to a lower K (>8000k), plenty of red/green.

4 rb, 2 "uv".. for one channel, your "actinic" channel
6 cyan for your "aqua" tone.
6 rb channel
6 neutral white..(4-5000k for red/green component)

totals:
10 royal blue
2 "uv" (410nm-ish)
6 cyan
6 neutral white...

There is infinite amount of choices and few really "wrong" ones as long as you provide enough overall photons..
and skew to the blue............

2:1 ratio of "blue" to white..
cyan for err "look". Cyan is missing on most LED's yet present in quantity in most tubes and MH's.
Consider it sort of the secret sauce.

IF you want an overall more ""neutral" looking tank in the 14,000K-ish look..diodes need to be adjusted accordingly.
You can get it w/ the above but at a severe cost in output..
you can hit 18000-10000k w/ dimming of the rb and "actinic" channel.


NOTE and DISCLAIMER .. strictly for discussion..

I'd be surprised if you can get "mint" which is just royal blue w/ a broad spectrum green phosphor..

Ok, so you’d drop running any 12000K? The only “neutral” whites they offer are 6000k, so does your recommendation stand?

And what are your thoughts on 460nm vs 450nm?

Right now the plan is to go with 4x 450 and 8x 460....are you suggesting 6 and 6 or all 12 be 450 or it makes no difference?

 

[oreo54]

Ok, so you’d drop running any 12000K? The only “neutral” whites they offer are 6000k, so does your recommendation stand?

And what are your thoughts on 460nm vs 450nm?

Right now the plan is to go with 4x 450 and 8x 460....are you suggesting 6 and 6 or all 12 be 450 or it makes no difference?

EEK, you're right did leave off the "reg blue"
Ignore the output numbers.. based on 1W diodes..8000k 6500k won't make much difference.
IF you are worried about the right side, I can't tell you if it's "critical" or not..

but if you want, you can throw 2 660nm reds in w/ the 6500k whites..
Actually if you go w/ the red on the white channel .. shift K to 8000K. no more than 2 reds..
8000K and deep red is a really clean "white" usually..
Note the chart "slides" up and down w/ various dimming.. so it's relative..
Like I said .. infinite choices..


Add 2 to the all royal blue channel or more to taste.. Doesn't make a lot of difference unless you add just 460nm.
Keep the "actinic" channel for pop (royal blue/UV)
*

MIXING LIST
----------------------------------------
LED UV (410nm) [120°] x2
LED RoyalBlue (450nm) [120°] x8
LED Blue (460nm) [120°] x2
LED Cyan (500nm) [120°] x6
LED CoolWhite (8000K) [120°] x6
----------------------------------------

* SIMULATION DATA
----------------------------------------
Luminous flux : 1,266 lm
Radiant flux : 8,349 mW
PPF : 33.2 umol/s
TCP : ‑ K
CRI : ‑
λp : 452 nm
Color : #4458FF

* MIXING LIST
----------------------------------------
LED UV (410nm) [120°] x2
LED RoyalBlue (450nm) [120°] x8
LED Blue (460nm) [120°] x2
LED Cyan (500nm) [120°] x6
LED DeepRed (660nm) [120°] x2
LED CoolWhite (8000K) [120°] x4

 

[skyrne_isk]

do you just plug in the quantity of LEDs on this calculator and then check for spectrum deficiencies?

 

[oreo54]

Yea sort of..
I also check ind. channel colors and the effect on overall look and output..
I "do" freshwater w/ an eye on color fidelity and maximizing the "tone" at max output.
Also being able to "color shift" w/ minimal PAR losses

But it's not as complicated as it sounds..
Like I said, since this is a DIY.. determine what you want it to look like is the place to start..

Most get hung up in spectrum and ignore quality to your eye.... Never quite understood that.

ANY color tone you prefer can produce good results.. From 6500K (or really old school 4000k) to "20000K" (or infinite K)

The THOUGHT on the above was max color w/ an overall deep blue tone..w/ some shifting of tone..
but not much..

You have the tool to make these decisions yourself, and as I said, haven't seen where one could screw up HORRIBLY..
Part of it relies on things like this:

KYOCERA Develops World's First Full-Spectrum LED Aquarium Lighting; Innovative technology mimics sunlight at specific underwater depths; designed to optimize growth of corals and marine plants | News Releases | KYOCERA

Kyocera announced that the company developed the world’s first full-spectrum LED lighting for aquariums.

global.kyocera.com

Tones but the overall look is usually not "punchy" enough for most.. so more fill on the RIGHT side of the spectrum..than what would be provided by nature...

I rely a LOT on others to make a guess.. Usually I wouldn't bother w/ threads like this, not my territory really, but couldn't resist in your case..

 

[skyrne_isk]

Yea sort of..
I also check ind. channel colors and the effect on overall look and output..
I "do" freshwater w/ an eye on color fidelity and maximizing the "tone" at max output.
Also being able to "color shift" w/ minimal PAR losses

But it's not as complicated as it sounds..
Like I said, since this is a DIY.. determine what you want it to look like is the place to start..

Most get hung up in spectrum and ignore quality to your eye.... Never quite understood that.

ANY color tone you prefer can produce good results.. From 6500K (or really old school 4000k) to "20000K" (or infinite K)

The THOUGHT on the above was max color w/ an overall deep blue tone..w/ some shifting of tone..
but not much..

You have the tool to make these decisions yourself, and as I said, haven't seen where one could screw up HORRIBLY..
Part of it relies on things like this:

KYOCERA Develops World's First Full-Spectrum LED Aquarium Lighting; Innovative technology mimics sunlight at specific underwater depths; designed to optimize growth of corals and marine plants | News Releases | KYOCERA

Kyocera announced that the company developed the world’s first full-spectrum LED lighting for aquariums.

global.kyocera.com

Tones but the overall look is usually not "punchy" enough for most.. so more fill on the RIGHT side of the spectrum..than what would be provided by nature...

I rely a LOT on others to make a guess.. Usually I wouldn't bother w/ threads like this, not my territory really, but couldn't resist in your case..

Well thanks man I really appreciate it. As it turns out it’s not really my area of expertise either LOL. But since the manufacture is switching some LEDs out on me at my request I basically have to get it right without being able to try it out and see. Most of the reading I’ve been doing has been on the general LED thread and trying to grab onto some of the common conceptions like going 3:1 blue to white, what ratios they have found most pleasing to the eye when adding things like cyan and how to build the white spectrum without using high K whites. Most of the DIY LED folks are like mad scientists to me

 

[oreo54]

This might help a bit..
See "old" LED boxes were royal blue/ 10000k (or higher) boxes @ 50/50..
Worked fine, didn't look the best and wasted power when most decreased whites by at least 50%...in general..

Like I said best to pick the "blue" you like first..
some prefer blue/violet
some blue
some blue/aqua..

Then there are "levels" of blueness.. see bottom photo..

I mean you have to look at it every day..
Last pattern I gave you was basically 3:1 "blue" (2 blues, violet) to white
w/ red and cyan..

opp's forgot link..

DIY Reef Lighting: New color choices for DIY LED lights

Predictions were correct- high power light emitting diodes are overtaking the aquarium industry and starting to show up in everyday lighting solutions, replacin

reefs.com

I personally disagree an the "green" part and saying blue/green = cyan. Completely different wavelengths.
For fun..


If you want something like this.. A different story..

 

[oreo54]

you can go through this thread for various combinations..

General DIY LED thread

Broke out a tool I used when working with freshwater back awhile ago: http://spectra.1023world.net Hi, is this tool valid for reef led lights too? I'm under impression that plants and corals use slightly different light spectra.

www.reef2reef.com

 

[oreo54]

Had some time to "play" w/ alternate looks..
first the bad of it.. Overall would be considered the more Windex-y look.
Good thing is it's more err daylight balanced.
roughly capable of 8000-20000K w/ just dimming one channel.
Should always stay in the "aqua" side of the Kelvin locus.. (black line across the CIE 1931 CHART)
YOU CANNOT get that deep blue look w/out sacrificing a lot of light. i.e all white containing channels off and cyan dimmed. All on full is pretty deep (>20000K) but not quite deep enough.
2 patterns w/ an either/or look..

OPP's above is "blue" channel dimmed..
THIS is full

Really more of a 1:1 blue/white ratio..12990K look w/ the 460/uv/450 channel at 1/2 power.
About a real 20000k (not like 20000k MH's which ar all over the board and generaly really just blue like the first pattern) all channels on full.
8200k and "aqua" look w/ it fully off..
Like the tank above..

Orig config above..sorry a bit sloppy on my part..

 

[skyrne_isk]

Had some time to "play" w/ alternate looks..
first the bad of it.. Overall would be considered the more Windex-y look.
Good thing is it's more err daylight balanced.
roughly capable of 8000-20000K w/ just dimming one channel.
Should always stay in the "aqua" side of the Kelvin locus.. (black line across the CIE 1931 CHART)
YOU CANNOT get that deep blue look w/out sacrificing a lot of light. i.e all white containing channels off and cyan dimmed. All on full is pretty deep (>20000K) but not quite deep enough.
2 patterns w/ an either/or look..

OPP's above is "blue" channel dimmed..
THIS is full

Really more of a 1:1 blue/white ratio..12990K look w/ the 460/uv/450 channel at 1/2 power.
About a real 20000k (not like 20000k MH's which ar all over the board and generaly really just blue like the first pattern) all channels on full.
8200k and "aqua" look w/ it fully off..
Like the tank above..

Orig config above..sorry a bit sloppy on my part..

What if the whites available to me are 6000k? Would you still suggest including red on channel 2?

I should also mention that i have a bunch of 460 Hecarc T5 tubes that I currently supplement with. Is it inadvisable to run a 2 more for 450 LEDs over the 460 or cyan? My point is i can easily add 460 with T5 and so am not required to include in the fixture itself. I did some playing around with the Calculator last night but unfortunately the output curve doesn’t say much to me – meaning you have a lot more intuition about how it “should“ look or what by us to have in the way the curve looks.

 

[skyrne_isk]

Really more of a 1:1 blue/white ratio..12990K look w/ the 460/uv/450 channel at 1/2 power.
About a real 20000k (not like 20000k MH's which ar all over the board and generaly really just blue like the first pattern) all channels on full.
8200k and "aqua" look w/ it fully off..
Like the tank above..

Orig config above..sorry a bit sloppy on my part..

I think this layout is the one - so long as you don’t think it’s got too much cyan and will have that windex look. as I said above it will have two 420 actinic vho bulbs and two 460 T5 bulbs running alongside it. So let me know if you think there’s too much cyan but overall I think the balancing is pretty good on this last version on paper anyway .

 

[oreo54]

I think this layout is the one - so long as you don’t think it’s got too much cyan and will have that windex look. as I said above it will have two 420 actinic vho bulbs and two 460 T5 bulbs running alongside it. So let me know if you think there’s too much cyan but overall I think the balancing is pretty good on this last version on paper anyway .

well... 6000k is only marginally worse than 8000k and does add a wee bit more in the green-yellow-red range..
Too much cyan..that's a trickier story.
That level is fairly common in MH's
25% relative..CATCH is it is visually bright.. Think LED "green" light which some are high cyan like 500nm.

5mm LED cyan, bluish green LED 500-505nm with water clear lens used in LED traffic light

Greens aren't really efficient enough for that purpose.

And Biologically active.

I was hoping some more DIY'ers would chime in in support or criticism though..
@Kampo ect.

If that amount of cyan makes you nervous.. no real harm in adding more of any type of blue into the cyan channel...

DID they give you a list of available diodes???

 

[skyrne_isk]

By way of follow up - and for anyone who comes across this later, here is what I went with:

Ch1: 4x450nm (royal blue) + 2x 460nm (blue)
Ch2: 4x 6000K (white) + 2x 12000K (bright white)
Ch3: 4x 450nm (royal blue) + 2x 410nm (UV)
Ch4: 4x 500nm (cyan) + 2x 460nm (blue)

The lights showed up about a week ago - so all told it took maybe 7-8 days from time of order to lights in my hands. That was pretty quick in my book.

Feedback on my light selection:

Would not have gone with any 12000K on channel 2, would probably select a lower K warm white/amber for those 2 diodes. Glad I didn't go with any full red diodes.

On the cyan question - which most of my hand wringing was over - definitely not too much.

Overall, I am loving the look of this light layout. It's neither overpowered by greens or purples. Reminds me of the old reeflux 12000K bulbs (which looked more like 20000K - but that's another topic).

Still working on the mounting options - and will get some pics of what I am riveting together tonight - but here are some pics of one light lit over my tank this weekend.

 

[skyrne_isk]

Here are the shots - I don't have on me which of these channels correspond to their assigned number - but you'll get the point. I believe these are in order 1-4 (different channel order than what is specified earlier in this thread) but you'll get the idea.


Cyan--------------------------------------------------------------------------UV


White------------------------------------------------------------------------Royal Blue


All Channels @ 100%

 

[oreo54]

cool..
Warm white <4000K are a good red substitute.

 

[skyrne_isk]

cool..
Warm white <4000K are a good red substitute.

And a warm thanks to you, friend. I much appreciate you taking much of your time and knowledge to give me some help

And definitely use the spectra tool on desktop - what a revelation! That thing is super cool!!

 

[oreo54]

And a warm thanks to you, friend. I much appreciate you taking much of your time and knowledge to give me some help

And definitely use the spectra tool on desktop - what a revelation! That thing is super cool!!

One question regarding photos.. It's helpful to mention how close they are to real life..
Sometimes cameras see things very different than we do.