Leopard wrasse acting ill..but what?

[KJoFan]

I've got 4 leopard wrasses currently in QT. 3 of 4 doing well, and one acting ill. Symptoms are mostly rapid breathing, vertical orientation and hovering in place like this. It can and does swim normally, but spends most of it's time just hovering, nose up, breathing rapidly. I've done two rounds of prazi with no change/improvement.

The other 3 wrasses are breathing and acting normal.

Ideas on what might be ailing this one, and what medication/treatment I could try to relieve whatever is ailing it? I'm trying to keep things as low stress as possible, as these are very stressy fish.

 

[ngoodermuth]

Aggression? Are the others paying any special attention to it?

I’d say intestinal parasites are probably the most likely culprit. Are they eating well? Any white-stringy poop?

I’d start feeding medicated food, General cure + Focus.

 

[KJoFan]

Aggression? Are the others paying any special attention to it?

I’d say intestinal parasites are probably the most likely culprit. Are they eating well? Any white-stringy poop?

I’d start feeding medicated food, General cure + Focus.

The others seem to ignore it completely, so I don't think it's aggression. It is one of two Potter's in the QT, one week tomorrow and so far neither one has been interested in much for food, despite my efforts to offer a variety. So, GC in the food will be tough. No report on the poop as I haven't observed that.

Foods offered have been Mysis Feast (with GC+Focus), ROE, Tigger Feast, LRS Reef Frenzy, Masstick. All a no go for the most part so far. :/

 

[ngoodermuth]

Ok, the species makes a big difference... potters are extremely poor shippers and often never recover.

Have you tried live baby brine or live worms? Also, I’ve had good luck with cyclops and small leopards.

If you can spare a piece or two of sacrificial live rock, I’d add it for them to graze. You can remove it later if you need medication, but these guys are so, so susceptible to stress- so I thinking getting them settled and eating is the biggest challenge.

 

[KJoFan]

Ok, the species makes a big difference... potters are extremely poor shippers and often never recover.

Have you tried live baby brine or live worms? Also, I’ve had good luck with cyclops and small leopards.

If you can spare a piece or two of sacrificial live rock, I’d add it for them to graze. You can remove it later if you need medication, but these guys are so, so susceptible to stress- so I thinking getting them settled and eating is the biggest challenge.

I agree. I'm surprised/impressed they've made it almost a week. I don't really have any immediate access to live worms, but I could whip up some live baby brine shrimp.

I actually brought in five Potters and only these two remain so...I know how quickly this can go sideways, I want to do what I can, if I can do anything to help.
I will search around my display for some smaller pieces of LR maybe as well.

If I don't succeed with either of these two I think I'm done with Potters for awhile. So so difficult!

 

[KJoFan]

Ok, the species makes a big difference... potters are extremely poor shippers and often never recover.

Have you tried live baby brine or live worms? Also, I’ve had good luck with cyclops and small leopards.

If you can spare a piece or two of sacrificial live rock, I’d add it for them to graze. You can remove it later if you need medication, but these guys are so, so susceptible to stress- so I thinking getting them settled and eating is the biggest challenge.

It does seem to have a wound or chunk done along it's flank. It's not red or anything, but could be a source of infection it's trying to fight? #reefsquad

 

[KJoFan]

Well, I tried adding a video but I can't seem to figure out how to actually do that.

 

[Frtdrmrose7]

Well, I tried adding a video but I can't seem to figure out how to actually do that.

Upload it to YouTube then copy and paste the link here

 

[KJoFan]

 

[KJoFan]

Not the best video and there's ROE floating around in there but towards the end you can glimpse the wound on it's side. It was refusing to show it to me mostly.

 

[ngoodermuth]

I see it, it could be an infection... do you have acriflavine? An acriflavine bath might be helpful, if it perks up after you will know you are on the right track. To treat with antibiotics though, you’d want to remove most of the rock and sand... can leave a container or two of sand and maybe a small piece of rock if that’s all they are eating. Or, move the afflicted to his own hospital tank.

One thing I did notice, unless you had it turned off for the video, it doesn’t seem like there is a ton of water movement and the water is a bit cloudy (likely bacterial bloom following prazi) I would bet that part of the issue is lowered oxygen. Prazi and bacterial blooms both suck up oxygen pretty quickly. Swimming up facing the surface and breathing heavy would be symptoms of low 02. Maybe if this one is battling infection, it’s struggling more than the others.

I’d add an airstone and make sure your powerhead is in full blast and breaking the surface.

 

[Frtdrmrose7]

^^ I agree 100%

 

[KJoFan]

I see it, it could be an infection... do you have acriflavine? An acriflavine bath might be helpful, if it perks up after you will know you are on the right track. To treat with antibiotics though, you’d want to remove most of the rock and sand... can leave a container or two of sand and maybe a small piece of rock if that’s all they are eating. Or, move the afflicted to his own hospital tank.

One thing I did notice, unless you had it turned off for the video, it doesn’t seem like there is a ton of water movement and the water is a bit cloudy (likely bacterial bloom following prazi) I would bet that part of the issue is lowered oxygen. Prazi and bacterial blooms both suck up oxygen pretty quickly. Swimming up facing the surface and breathing heavy would be symptoms of low 02. Maybe if this one is battling infection, it’s struggling more than the others.

I’d add an airstone and make sure your powerhead is in full blast and breaking the surface.

I don't have acriflavine. I'd have to hunt some down online if I go that route.

There is an airstone in there, it just was at the other end of the tank. There's no powerhead in there, all movement/O2 is provided by Marineland HOB biowheel filter and the airstone. I've never used a powerhead in any of my QT's but I could try to add one if I can find a small one that won't cause a huge sandstorm.

And, I agree, some of the cloudiness is probably a bacterial bloom. Also, the glass isn't the cleanest and gets a film on it, which was also a factor.

Seems there's no easy route here, removal of the rock and sand would greatly impact the biofilter, not to mention likely uproot the others unknowingly.

I do have a spare tank I could move it to, but I debate the added stress that would cause? Plus, the liklihood of ammonia exposure with a sterile tank.

I'm not trying to shoot down all the options, just voicing my concerns so someone can soothe my worries and help me make the best choice. :)

 

[ngoodermuth]

How much sand is in there? The thing with antibiotics, is that they are most effective when there is little bio-filter. Can be some, but too much sand and rock can cause die-off and ammonia spikes and then you will be worse off than you are now.

I think if you have a spare tank, that’s probably your best bet. Put lots of pvc pieces in there for places to hide/feel secure and a small bowl of sand. You can use bio-spira to help manage ammonia, and you’ll be doing regular water changes for the antibiotics anyway...

At least then, you aren’t putting the others through more stress than needed. I would still do a pretty big water change on that tank and add a small powerhead, to help get through the bloom without any issues.

Do you have antibiotics on hand? What meds do you have access to?

API Fungus Cure has acriflavine, and would work for a bath. Furan-2 and Triple Sulpha are both good API branded antibiotics, that are usually pretty easy to find. I know my local PetSmart carries them.

 

[KJoFan]

How much sand is in there? The thing with antibiotics, is that they are most effective when there is little bio-filter. Can be some, but too much sand and rock can cause die-off and ammonia spikes and then you will be worse off than you are now.

I think if you have a spare tank, that’s probably your best bet. Put lots of pvc pieces in there for places to hide/feel secure and a small bowl of sand. You can use bio-spira to help manage ammonia, and you’ll be doing regular water changes for the antibiotics anyway...

At least then, you aren’t putting the others through more stress than needed. I would still do a pretty big water change on that tank and add a small powerhead, to help get through the bloom without any issues.

Do you have antibiotics on hand? What meds do you have access to?

API Fungus Cure has acriflavine, and would work for a bath. Furan-2 and Triple Sulpha are both good API branded antibiotics, that are usually pretty easy to find. I know my local PetSmart carries them.

I found a powerhead and added it. It's probably a bit big for the application, but I pointed it at the surface as much as I dare without slowly emptying the tank. :D We'll see if that helps things at all.

I'd have to order some Biospira or the like for the move to a hospital tank, so a couple days out on that at least.

On hand I have Furan-2, Metroplex, Kanaplex, General Cure, BioFuran....I think that's it aside from Copper, Prazi and Melafix.

Anything I'd need that I don't have would have to be ordered, any store would be at minimum 70 miles away and that's just to places like Petco/PetSmart. Yay rural living! :)

 

[KJoFan]

Are there other meds I should get if I'm going to order some bacteria to help cycle a hospital tank? I can get Fungus Cure, but if there's others I should have I can get those too.

 

[ngoodermuth]

If you are going to order it anyway, I’d just get Ruby Reef Rally vs the Fungus Cure. It’s good stuff to have on hand and pretty gentle on the fish.

NFG is a good antibiotic to have as well, but you definitely have others you can use in the meantime.

You can order the biospira, but I don’t think you necessarily have to wait for it. You can just use a smaller piece of LR in the meantime as a bio-filter, and get started with Kanaplex + Metroplex + BiFuran. You’ll be doing regular water changes (every 48 hours) for the antibiotics anyway.

 

[KJoFan]

If you are going to order it anyway, I’d just get Ruby Reef Rally vs the Fungus Cure. It’s good stuff to have on hand and pretty gentle on the fish.

NFG is a good antibiotic to have as well, but you definitely have others you can use in the meantime.

You can order the biospira, but I don’t think you necessarily have to wait for it. You can just use a smaller piece of LR in the meantime as a bio-filter, and get started with Kanaplex + Metroplex + BiFuran. You’ll be doing regular water changes (every 48 hours) for the antibiotics anyway.

I can certainly put the order in and move ahead. Would you go for the BiFuran vs the Furan-2 in combo with the Kanaplex and Metroplex?

It has bedded down for the night now so I'll have to see what I can get together tomorrow. I hate to move slowly, but I also don't want to cause undo stress, so I'm not going to go digging for it tonight. But, I do consider it a good sign it still keeps proper hours, bedding down in the evening and up mid morning, so far.

The other Potter's doesn't really show signs of illness beyond not really eating yet, would you treat it as well, or leave it be?

 

[ngoodermuth]

Furan-2 is good, I don’t know how I skipped over that one but noticed the other lol

If the other potters doesn’t seem affected I’d leave him be for now, I think.

 

[KJoFan]

Furan-2 is good, I don’t know how I skipped over that one but noticed the other lol

Alright, so a few supplies are on order, but I will plan to try to get it moved into it's own tank tomorrow and start the antibiotic regiment. I believe I saw someone post in another thread the exact dosing/water change schedule, so I'll reference that for how to proceed.