Leptastrea dying

[vsciacca]

My leptastrea was doing very well a few months ago. Growing new heads daily, fully extending, overall very happy looking. Recently, polyps don’t appear to be extended and puffy and heads have been dying off leaving just the skeleton behind. I thought it was lighting so I got a par meter and the par read 75-100 around that coral. I also have been running near zero nitrates, but have slowly increased that over a two week span to 3.5-4 where it has held steady for a few weeks now.

Only thing I can think now is my mushrooms which have been expanding pretty quickly are engaging in some warfare. I also have a blasto near these same mushrooms that seems to be doing fine.

Tank parameters stay pretty steady at
Nitrate 3.5
Alk 8.5-9
Calcium 460
Mag 1350-1380
Salinity 1.026
Temp 77-77.5
I don’t have a reliable test kit for phosphate yet but last reading at my lfs was 0.04
Nitrate is done with a Hanna, calc mag and alk are salifert tests

Tank is 20 gallons with a 10 gal sump. filtration is filter floss changed biweekly with a chaeto refugium. There are two powerheads and return pump for flow. Tanks is lps dominant along with two montis and three acros and some softies. Two btas and stock includes some hermits and snails, a basslet, hectors goby, scooter blenny, two bangaiis, and one clown.

 

[vsciacca]

My leptastrea was doing very well a few months ago. Growing new heads daily, fully extending, overall very happy looking. Recently, polyps don’t appear to be extended and puffy and heads have been dying off leaving just the skeleton behind. I thought it was lighting so I got a par meter and the par read 75-100 around that coral. I also have been running near zero nitrates, but have slowly increased that over a two week span to 3.5-4 where it has held steady for a few weeks now.

Only thing I can think now is my mushrooms which have been expanding pretty quickly are engaging in some warfare. I also have a blasto near these same mushrooms that seems to be doing fine.

Tank parameters stay pretty steady at
Nitrate 3.5
Alk 8.5-9
Calcium 460
Mag 1350-1380
Salinity 1.026
Temp 77-77.5
I don’t have a reliable test kit for phosphate yet but last reading at my lfs was 0.04
Nitrate is done with a Hanna, calc mag and alk are salifert tests

Tank is 20 gallons with a 10 gal sump. filtration is filter floss changed biweekly with a chaeto refugium. There are two powerheads and return pump for flow. Tanks is lps dominant along with two montis and three acros and some softies. Two btas and stock includes some hermits and snails, a basslet, hectors goby, scooter blenny, two bangaiis, and one clown.

Forgot to add my question. Any thoughts on what might be causing the leptastrea die off? If it is likely the mushrooms any recommendations on how to move/remove them from this rock?

 

[vsciacca]

My leptastrea was doing very well a few months ago. Growing new heads daily, fully extending, overall very happy looking. Recently, polyps don’t appear to be extended and puffy and heads have been dying off leaving just the skeleton behind. I thought it was lighting so I got a par meter and the par read 75-100 around that coral. I also have been running near zero nitrates, but have slowly increased that over a two week span to 3.5-4 where it has held steady for a few weeks now.

Only thing I can think now is my mushrooms which have been expanding pretty quickly are engaging in some warfare. I also have a blasto near these same mushrooms that seems to be doing fine.

Tank parameters stay pretty steady at
Nitrate 3.5
Alk 8.5-9
Calcium 460
Mag 1350-1380
Salinity 1.026
Temp 77-77.5
I don’t have a reliable test kit for phosphate yet but last reading at my lfs was 0.04
Nitrate is done with a Hanna, calc mag and alk are salifert tests

Tank is 20 gallons with a 10 gal sump. filtration is filter floss changed biweekly with a chaeto refugium. There are two powerheads and return pump for flow. Tanks is lps dominant along with two montis and three acros and some softies. Two btas and stock includes some hermits and snails, a basslet, hectors goby, scooter blenny, two bangaiis, and one clown.

For reference this was the leptastrea a year ago.

 

[mcarroll]

My leptastrea was doing very well a few months ago. Growing new heads daily, fully extending, overall very happy looking. Recently, polyps don’t appear to be extended and puffy and heads have been dying off leaving just the skeleton behind.

First, the tank loos great, but is PACKED. This always comes with some extra challenges, and some degree of coral die-off as boundaries are established and re-established. Considering some of the inhabintants, it's beyond packed.

I thought it was lighting so I got a par meter and the par read 75-100 around that coral. I also have been running near zero nitrates, but have slowly increased that over a two week span to 3.5-4 where it has held steady for a few weeks now.

Curious what changed in the first place that made you think lighting was a problem? In general you wouldn't wan't to make changes like that.

You need a phosphate test. NO3 being zero isn't great, but if PO4 has also dropped like that it can be very bad....tissue recession would be one expected side effect.

Only thing I can think now is my mushrooms which have been expanding pretty quickly are engaging in some warfare. I also have a blasto near these same mushrooms that seems to be doing fine.

Very possible. Probable, even. Not the only problem at work though.

Blasto is a different coral in a different section of the tank though. Apples-Oranges.

Tank parameters stay pretty steady at
Nitrate 3.5
Alk 8.5-9
Calcium 460
Mag 1350-1380
Salinity 1.026
Temp 77-77.5
I don’t have a reliable test kit for phosphate yet but last reading at my lfs was 0.04
Nitrate is done with a Hanna, calc mag and alk are salifert tests

If these numbers are steady, what happened with nutrients recently that you say they were "near zero"?

FYI, I'd suggest:
NO3 ≥ 5 ppm
PO4 ≥ 0.10 ppm for newer tanks; lower can be ok for healthy mature tanks, ≥ 0.05 ppm...sometimes even lower.

Higher numbers are always OK if the tank is OK.

Tank is 20 gallons with a 10 gal sump. filtration is filter floss changed biweekly with a chaeto refugium.

Doesn't sound like your filtration is really in line with your tank's nutrient inputs/needs.

IMO, consider replacing the current regime with just a protein skimmer. Lower impact filtration, plus there will probably be an improvement to aeration.

Other coral and algae all wage chemicla warfare on stony corals, BTW. So that's another reason the removing the algae farm could be beneficial.

 

[vsciacca]

First, the tank loos great, but is PACKED. This always comes with some extra challenges, and some degree of coral die-off as boundaries are established and re-established. Considering some of the inhabintants, it's beyond packed.


Curious what changed in the first place that made you think lighting was a problem? In general you wouldn't wan't to make changes like that.

You need a phosphate test. NO3 being zero isn't great, but if PO4 has also dropped like that it can be very bad....tissue recession would be one expected side effect.

Thank you! It was a long first two years in this hobby to get to the point where corals would actually grow. The third year has been trying to dial things in as best as possible. It certainly is packed which is probably not ideal, but it has for the most part been doing well. I expect some corals to push others out, but I prefer the leptastrea over the mushrooms so would like it to survive if possible. As far as the lights go, I slowly ramped them up over a two month period to see if I could accommodate sps corals. Nothing was wrong I just tried one monti and it didn’t do well so I ramped the lights up for that. I will get a phosphate test to keep a better eye on it. I do have it tested about once a month at my lfs and it’s been low but detectable. i do think getting both of these up a little higher would be beneficial and it’s something im working towards but taking it slowly

 

[vsciacca]

Very possible. Probable, even. Not the only problem at work though.

Blasto is a different coral in a different section of the tank though. Apples-Oranges.

I know they’re different corals, but what do you mean by that? They are currently right next to each other. Are you saying they shouldn’t be near each other because they have different requirements?

If these numbers are steady, what happened with nutrients recently that you say they were "near zero"?


FYI, I'd suggest:
NO3 ≥ 5 ppm
PO4 ≥ 0.10 ppm for newer tanks; lower can be ok for healthy mature tanks, ≥ 0.05 ppm...sometimes even lower.

Higher numbers are always OK if the tank is OK.

Sorry I should have explained this better. The Alk mag and calc have been steady. The nitrates were near zero for a while so I started feeding a little bit heavier and after about 2 weeks the nitrates were up at 3.5-4 and have been steady at that number for about three weeks. Initial reasoning to upping the nitrates was because my gsp was not happy. After reading more about it I realized an ultra low nutrient tank is not good. I would like my nitrates to be higher but I didn’t want to raise it too quickly. I plan to increase the nitrates more if I don’t see any issues pop up. My general rule of thumb is giving the tank 3-4 weeks when I make changes to make sure everything seems okay. Obviously will need to get a PO4 tester to more closely manage those levels but I plan to do that soon.

Doesn't sound like your filtration is really in line with your tank's nutrient inputs/needs.


IMO, consider replacing the current regime with just a protein skimmer. Lower impact filtration, plus there will probably be an improvement to aeration.

Other coral and algae all wage chemicla warfare on stony corals, BTW. So that's another reason the removing the algae farm could be beneficial.

I’ve went back and forth with this in the beginning. At one point I had way too much filtration going on and had a skimmer going along with the refug. Led to completely bottomed out nutrients and some negative consequences. Took out the mechanical and just ran the skimmer and refugium. The skimmer broke leading me to just running the refugium and some filter floss before it and the tank has been okay, but still very low nutrients. I dialed the light cycle back and increased my feeding and have gotten those nutrients to come up and stay stable like I said earlier. I worry about taking the refugium out as it’s been a really reliable tool to control my nitrates and pretty easily manipulated by changing the light cycle. Are you suggesting removing the refugium and filter floss entirely and just doing a skimmer?

Lastly for the leptastrea should I just leave it as is and let nature do its thing? It is important to note that the low nutrients could still be the cause as it’s only been just over three weeks with my nitrates above near zero.

Apologies for the long message I’m just trying to frame things as clearly as possible since I’m still only three years into this hobby and have tried several different things over that time. Just to clarify, the last year I have been running just the filter floss and refugium with very low nutrient levels up until 5-6 weeks ago. The only changes that were made between the time the leptastrea was doing well and it started to die off was my mushrooms growth taking off and increasing the intensity of my lights.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Looks more like stinging but assure and not irritating it as well as CA and alk not having swings

 

[vsciacca]

Looks more like stinging but assure and not irritating it as well as CA and alk not having swings

That’s the way it looked to me. It is possible for a mushroom to cause that right?

 

[mcarroll]

I know they’re different corals, but what do you mean by that? They are currently right next to each other. Are you saying they shouldn’t be near each other because they have different requirements?

No. I'm saying that they are different in their requirements and tolerances – for flow and other things. So even tho it's doing fine, that doesn't mean the coral next to it is doing fine. The other coral may have differing requirements and tolerances AND it's not receiving identical flow or light to the other coral. (Not to mention other factors like neighboring corals stinging or releasing chem's of war.)

Sorry I should have explained this better. The Alk mag and calc have been steady. The nitrates were near zero for a while so I started feeding a little bit heavier and after about 2 weeks the nitrates were up at 3.5-4 and have been steady at that number for about three weeks. Initial reasoning to upping the nitrates was because my gsp was not happy. After reading more about it I realized an ultra low nutrient tank is not good. I would like my nitrates to be higher but I didn’t want to raise it too quickly. I plan to increase the nitrates more if I don’t see any issues pop up. My general rule of thumb is giving the tank 3-4 weeks when I make changes to make sure everything seems okay. Obviously will need to get a PO4 tester to more closely manage those levels but I plan to do that soon.

Depending on the rest of the situation, nutrients bottoming out can be bad...certainly makes the corals more vulnerable to other things.

I’ve went back and forth with this in the beginning. At one point I had way too much filtration going on and had a skimmer going along with the refug. Led to completely bottomed out nutrients and some negative consequences. Took out the mechanical and just ran the skimmer and refugium. The skimmer broke leading me to just running the refugium and some filter floss before it and the tank has been okay, but still very low nutrients. I dialed the light cycle back and increased my feeding and have gotten those nutrients to come up and stay stable like I said earlier. I worry about taking the refugium out as it’s been a really reliable tool to control my nitrates and pretty easily manipulated by changing the light cycle. Are you suggesting removing the refugium and filter floss entirely and just doing a skimmer?

Seems like it would make sense. Maybe try the skimmer and refugium together for a while, but without the other things?

Lastly for the leptastrea should I just leave it as is and let nature do its thing? It is important to note that the low nutrients could still be the cause as it’s only been just over three weeks with my nitrates above near zero.

How feasible is moving it? Disturbing the whole tank "for one coral" is always a tough call....especially if it's not in danger of being lost....other parts are still healthy and growing right?

Apologies for the long message I’m just trying to frame things as clearly as possible since I’m still only three years into this hobby and have tried several different things over that time. Just to clarify, the last year I have been running just the filter floss and refugium with very low nutrient levels up until 5-6 weeks ago. The only changes that were made between the time the leptastrea was doing well and it started to die off was my mushrooms growth taking off and increasing the intensity of my lights.

Increasing light intensity can be very hard on corals that are sensitive to it – naturally mushrooms aren't sensitive to anything, maybe not even sledgehammers, so they will take advantage any time your other corals take a hit or slow down for any reason. This seems to be their role in life.

 

[vsciacca]

No. I'm saying that they are different in their requirements and tolerances – for flow and other things. So even tho it's doing fine, that doesn't mean the coral next to it is doing fine. The other coral may have differing requirements and tolerances AND it's not receiving identical flow or light to the other coral. (Not to mention other factors like neighboring corals stinging or releasing chem's of war.)

I didn’t realize they had such different requirements. They were two of my first corals so they just kind of ended up where I thought they looked good. Unfortunately moving the lepta separate from everything else isn’t really an option without breaking up the rock they all live on. I removed a few of the mushrooms that were closest to it and it seems to be doing a bit better. A little bit more extension after a few days. It’s a waiting game now.

Depending on the rest of the situation, nutrients bottoming out can be bad...certainly makes the corals more vulnerable to other things.

Phosphate checker is on its way and I got nitrates up to 5-6 and holding steady there for the last few days. Seems to be benefiting some of my corals especially my gsp and torches.

Seems like it would make sense. Maybe try the skimmer and refugium together for a while, but without the other things?

I removed the mechanical filter and added my skimmer back in with the refugium. We’ll see how it goes. Definitely better than constantly replacing filter floss.

How feasible is moving it? Disturbing the whole tank "for one coral" is always a tough call....especially if it's not in danger of being lost....other parts are still healthy and growing right?

Like I said above it’s not really feasible. It still has some healthy bits. Just gonna give it some time without the mushrooms up in its business and see how it does.

Increasing light intensity can be very hard on corals that are sensitive to it – naturally mushrooms aren't sensitive to anything, maybe not even sledgehammers, so they will take advantage any time your other corals take a hit or slow down for any reason. This seems to be their role in life.

Mushrooms are some hardy sobs. Wish I knew they could cause harm before I put them on a shared rock. I moved the rock a little bit further to the edge of my tank that is getting less intense light. Not a huge difference but more in line with the lighting it had before I upped it for the sps corals.

Thanks for your response. I’ll share an update in a few weeks on the status. Hopefully some others can learn from this if it’s successful.

 

[vsciacca]

Update: removed the mushrooms located closest to the leptastrea and it’s doing much better. Took a few weeks but polyps are extending fully again and I’ve noticed some new growth. Also noticed my blasto seems to be extending a bit more. Seems like the mushrooms were the culprit.