Lets Talk about FLOW and SPS!

[HotRocks]

As is always with any discussion about SPS, I know answers will be all over the place. I know that Flow is VERY important to SPS and recently discovered there is Such a thing as TOO MUCH FLOW! When I say too much flow I mean too much direct, constant flow...

What kind of Flow do you run? Random? Side to side?
25X, 50X, 75X, Tank turnover per hour? Just curious what everyone does?

 

[Crabs McJones]

Following!

 

[C. Eymann]

With SPS cant really just say - give them X gph,

Needs to be intermittent surges of flow, with some static time in between surges.

After being on many reef crest drift dives, it's an average of about 8sec inbetween each surge forward/wave, it varies, but that's the average I counted.
So that's what I have always set my pulse pumps to, ramp up and down in 8sec increments.
When I switched to vortech, I just ran 100% reef crest on anti sync.


To really see the flow dynamics going on in the display I like using frozen cyclops as "indicators"
when trying to perfect in tank flow.

With acropora, I always tell people the polyps should look like a grassy field on a slightly breezy/gusty day, there should be brief periods of almost static between big gusts/ flushes of flow. Side to side being ideal, but not absolutely necessary.

 

[Auquanut]

I run 5 power heads on 3 wave makers in my 125. One on each side, and 3 on the back. I get really random flow. I quit trying to calculate GPH turnover long ago. Makes my head hurt.

 

[HotRocks]

With SPS cant really just say - give them X gph,

Needs to be intermittent surges of flow, with some static time in between surges.

After being on many reef crest drift dives, it's an average of about 8sec inbetween each surge forward/wave, it varies, but that's the average I counted.
So that's what I have always set my pulse pumps to, ramp up and down in 8sec increments.
When I switched to vortech, I just ran 100% reef crest on anti sync.


To really see the flow dynamics going on in the display I like using frozen cyclops as "indicators"
when trying to perfect in tank flow.

With acropora, I always tell people the polyps should look like a grassy field on a slightly breezy/gusty day, there should be brief periods of almost static between big gusts/ flushes of flow. Side to side being ideal, but not absolutely necessary.

What a great explanation. I don’t really worry too much about my GPH or tank turnover much either. I have my gyres set on random flow. Which I believe is similar to reef crest on a vortech. The explanation you use would be similar to what I’m seeing. I was previously running too much direct flow and for too long of time periods.

 

[AZMSGT]

A few months ago BRS did a video on this very subject.. I won’t spoil it for you but it left me really wondering.

 

[Auquanut]

^^ A real eye opener.

 

[Gareth elliott]

Following along too. Also wonder if the hobbies broad use of terms sps, lps and softies can be lead to some of the disagreement here.
Do all acropora require the same amount of flow? In the case of light there is some disparity. I can throw a lot more light at valida than I can an echinacea(probably spelled wrong lol)
For sake of what i have flow wise.
With just wave makers have about 70x max flow with about 40x average flow if did my math right on how long the ramp up and down cycles throughout the day.

 

[HotRocks]

A few months ago BRS did a video on this very subject.. I won’t spoil it for you but it left me really wondering.

I had watched that video. I just watched the end again where they show the pictures of the corals to see if I could tell any difference in PE or Coloration. I cant really see much of a difference in the short clips they show.

I don't have any real issues with my tank at the moment, but I think I have room for improvement on coloration and PE so maybe flow has more of an impact on the two than we realize? I don't know yet, I haven't had my flow settings changed but for a couple of days so it will be a while before I can make that type of determination.

 

[jda]

I have found that you need to be competent, but beyond this does not do much. I have a 240 with a Tunze 6200 series and a 6105 and a REAL Wavebox. This is competent. I used to use 6100s and then 6105s and they were competent too.

Competent flow is hard to determine, but enough so that your fish cannot just sit there without "swimming" and having a decently random flow both with velocity and location. I do not consider only gyre flow to be very competent in my tanks... pattern is too static even if I can change the velocity.

In my tank, the wavebox does the heavy lifting moving the entire 240 gallons back and forth a few inches every few seconds. The work that these do is amazing and I would likely never run a tank without one. The flow pumps are just to move around the stuff that the wavebox keeps suspended.

 

[SeaDweller]

I have found that you need to be competent, but beyond this does not do much. I have a 240 with a Tunze 6200 series and a 6105 and a REAL Wavebox. This is competent. I used to use 6100s and then 6105s and they were competent too.

Competent flow is hard to determine, but enough so that your fish cannot just sit there without "swimming" and having a decently random flow both with velocity and location. I do not consider only gyre flow to be very competent in my tanks... pattern is too static even if I can change the velocity.

In my tank, the wavebox does the heavy lifting moving the entire 240 gallons back and forth a few inches every few seconds. The work that these do is amazing and I would likely never run a tank without one. The flow pumps are just to move around the stuff that the wavebox keeps suspended.

what wavebox are you using?

 

[vetteguy53081]

My best success with SPS has been under Moderate water flow- Not blasting

 

[jda]

what wavebox are you using?

I made one out of acrylic with a pair of old 6100 Tunze in them using the Tunze Wave Controller. I snatch up 6100s whenever I can for parts or just to use. On smaller tanks, I have used the Tunze AOI wavebox.

 

[hart24601]

For SPS I have not found any that didn't like heavy flow unless right in the jet. Now a mixed reef, that's a challenge....

FWIW I have 5 powerheads on my waterbox 100.3, mp10, 3 reefbreeder RPM and a small tunze wavemaker.

I have them all on 80% random mode except the tunze which i have pointed up on pulse. If it wasn't for my LPS I wouldn't mind having even more flow.

 

[Thales]

As is always with any discussion about SPS, I know answers will be all over the place. I know that Flow is VERY important to SPS and recently discovered there is Such a thing as TOO MUCH FLOW! When I say too much flow I mean too much direct, constant flow...

Indeed there is such a thing!

What kind of Flow do you run? Random? Side to side?
25X, 50X, 75X, Tank turnover per hour? Just curious what everyone does?

I have never found any of those metrics to be useful. Well turnover can be, but only in regards to filtration, not to flow (having more turnover than you skimmer can handle seems counter productive). I think flow in a closed system is like weather microclimates in the Bay Area - impossible to generalize. I look for flow to have different phases (see below) and also to be easily changeable to deal with coral growth blocking flow. How much flow is always an interesting discussion, and my answer would be an annoying "the right amount". After doing this a long time and watching/studying flow patterns on many wild reefs, I like flow to alternate and be adjustable. I like to grow coral on every possible surface so I generally go for flow that changes over the day.

Most of the flow for the animals in my systems comes from internal water motion devices - my living room display (mixed reef, SPS, LPS, some softies, and NPS) has 2 WAV pumps, 3 gyres, one small Jabeao, and 4 or 5 imputs from a closed loop (two of those inputs go at the back of the tank facing each other from the corners, and the rest are above the surface via locline and have spinstreams on them). This allows me to punch flow to spots that wouldn't normally get flow due to aquascape and coral growth. The return pump is just to get flow to the skimmer and dosing stuff in the sump, one return line is static and the other is like the closed loop with a spinstream.

The static return line adds a constant flow direction for part of the tank.
The internal water motion devices are controlled by an Apex and are programmed to behave differently throughout the day and are generally grouped into right side and left side.

I usually have them set to broadly mimic tidal changes - high flow one direction, calmer flow, high flow the other direction, calmer flow, as well as periods of random flow. I also have all the pumps come on full every three hours in this sequence - one side for 5 minutes, both side for 5 minutes, the other side for 5 minutes...with these cycles starting on alternate sides via virtual outlets. There is different programming for each during different times of the day - sometimes linear, sometimes more from one direction, sometimes more random, sometimes high, sometimes low, sometimes wave action, sometimes slow pulses.

Here is a pic in blue light of the tank during a high flow period:


Here is a vid of how coral growth can block flow:


Here is a vid of the tank from a few months ago during a low flow period:

 

[Thales]

Hmm. Not sure if I like the new forum software showing the facebook posts instead of just the video. Oh well.

 

[ycnibrc]

A few months ago BRS did a video on this very subject.. I won’t spoil it for you but it left me really wondering.

Lol BRS is a dry good retailer. They are excellent with advice on dry good but I wouldn't trust them on how to grow Sps. As far as their experiment it's very minimum a frag rack with some frags and no rock or big colony to block flow. That's not represent the condition of your reef tank or in the ocean.

 

[DivingTheWorld]

enough so that your fish cannot just sit there without "swimming" and having a decently random flow both with velocity and location.

I've never thought about this before, but I really like this explanation! I run a 40" long 80g acro tank with two MP-40's set to 90% Reefcrest / Anti-synch 24/7. It's a lot of random flow and the only way my fish can rest is if they wedge themselves in the rockwork at night (like they would in the ocean). The rest of the day they're swimming.

It is also possible to have too much flow. Last BF I added a 3rd MP-40. Within a few days my Alk shot up and my acros were not happy. So for my tank, two is the right flow.

My recommendation is to add pumps for random flow until your acros tell you otherwise.

And yes, some acros like more flow than others (ex. Millis love flow), so you need to take that into consideration during placement.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

I use very low flow. I have 2 mp40s on the back of my 50 gallon cube facing the front of the tank set to 2 second gyre pulses at 10%. My sps polyps dance for a couple seconds every couple of seconds. I’d be happy to post a video if someone could tell me how from my iPhone

 

[HotRocks]

I use very low flow. I have 2 mp40s on the back of my 50 gallon cube facing the front of the tank set to 2 second gyre pulses at 10%. My sps polyps dance for a couple seconds every couple of seconds. I’d be happy to post a video if someone could tell me how from my iPhone

Easiest way to upload a video is upload yo YouTube and then post the link and it will embed the video into your post.