LFS - Salinity@ 1.0154 (20.5 ppt)

[TrevorHenryTDH]

Ehhh. Shoulda thrown them in a QT and carried same salinity and began medicating while raising the salinity, because all the good stuff once the hypo-salinity is gone the diseases come out and over a 2-3 week period of medicating and raising salinity they woulda been way better off.

 

[RaymondL]

Ehhh. Shoulda thrown them in a QT and carried same salinity and began medicating while raising the salinity, because all the good stuff once the hypo-salinity is gone the diseases come out and over a 2-3 week period of medicating and raising salinity they woulda been way better off.

That's a great idea - I'm thinking to do this - go back to LFS and get the same fish. I will set up the QT to match the salinity prior to the day. So based the fact that the LFS is 20.5ppt, and I want to raise it to 35 ppt over the weeks to come, how would I do that?

 

[twentyleagues]

The way I did it in the past was to top off with 1.026 saltwater.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

my water is 35ppt or 1.0264 - would you all agree that a 14.5ppt difference (or 0.011 specific gravity) is enough to might have caused the fish to die? I dripped acclimated for a long time."

I do not know, but many LFS do run low salinity to save money and to hopefully reduce diseases.

 

[TrevorHenryTDH]

I do not know, but many LFS do run low salinity to save money and to hopefully reduce diseases.

A lot of them too since fish come from wholesaler at 1.019

 

[furam28]

I got a couple of fishes yesterday from a reputable LFS, and they were in 1.011 salinity (15ppt). I was shocked and puzzled. I thought it was a mistake so I tested the other bag and both were at the exact same 1.011. The fishes came from 2 different tanks. My QT was at 1.022. I lowered it to 1.018 and acclimated the fishes from 1.011 to 1.018 over 2 hours. Not sure if that was too fast. In hindsight I shold have lowered my QT salinity even further, but I was worried about crashing my tank's cycle. The fishes seem fine but hiding and not swimming around much. Not hyperventilating though, so I am hoping they didn't get an osmotic shock. If they did get an osmotic shock, what are the signs I should be looking for?

Interestingly, I got a tuxedo urchin at the same time. It came from a separate small inverts tank. And that one was at 1.026 (35ppt) salinity. So the store is deliberately keeping all their fishes at hyposalinity condition, to keep ich and velvet at bay. I am planning to stop by the store today and talk to them, to see if they are deliberately keeping the fishes at such low salinity. I think it's a very shady practice, especially because they are not letting their customers know. Even if drip acclimating, if customers are taking these fishes from 15ppt to 35ppt over several hours, that's a huge shock (Based on hyposalinity protocols, you are supposed to raise salinity by 0.002 per day, so that will take 6 or 7 days to raise, I doubt anyone is doing that.). The fishes will either die from the osmotic shock, or the supressed ich or velvet will come out in full swing and kill the fishes in a short time. They get in a lot of new fishes, 2 or 3 times a week, and they sell a lot. I know a lot of LFS keep their fishes at low salinity to save on salt and keep ich at bay, but that's 1.018. I wasn't expecting downright hypo at 1.011.

 

[twentyleagues]

I got a couple of fishes yesterday from a reputable LFS, and they were in 1.011 salinity (15ppt). I was shocked and puzzled. I thought it was a mistake so I tested the other bag and both were at the exact same 1.011. The fishes came from 2 different tanks. My QT was at 1.022. I lowered it to 1.018 and acclimated the fishes from 1.011 to 1.018 over 2 hours. Not sure if that was too fast. In hindsight I shold have lowered my QT salinity even further, but I was worried about crashing my tank's cycle. The fishes seem fine but hiding and not swimming around much. Not hyperventilating though, so I am hoping they didn't get an osmotic shock. If they did get an osmotic shock, what are the signs I should be looking for?

Interestingly, I got a tuxedo urchin at the same time. It came from a separate small inverts tank. And that one was at 1.026 (35ppt) salinity. So the store is deliberately keeping all their fishes at hyposalinity condition, to keep ich and velvet at bay. I am planning to stop by the store today and talk to them, to see if they are deliberately keeping the fishes at such low salinity. I think it's a very shady practice, especially because they are not letting their customers know. Even if drip acclimating, if customers are taking these fishes from 15ppt to 35ppt over several hours, that's a huge shock (Based on hyposalinity protocols, you are supposed to raise salinity by 0.002 per day, so that will take 6 or 7 days to raise, I doubt anyone is doing that.). The fishes will either die from the osmotic shock, or the supressed ich or velvet will come out in full swing and kill the fishes in a short time. They get in a lot of new fishes, 2 or 3 times a week, and they sell a lot. I know a lot of LFS keep their fishes at low salinity to save on salt and keep ich at bay, but that's 1.018. I wasn't expecting downright hypo at 1.011.

Hypo can work to get rid of ich and velvet. If they deal with quality marine they keep a lot of the fish they get in in hypo to start the qt process.

 

[W31Olds]

Furam, while I agree that lowering salinity can suppress parasites, I don't believe that's the reason they run their systems at such low salinity. Most run copper in their systems anyway, it may be more for cost savings than anything.

 

[Largeangels]

That big of a jump in salinity is often not tolerated by fish. I believe there are some articles by Jay on this here. He either recommended 0.001 or 0.002 per day as max.

 

[furam28]

@Jay Hemdal. What are the signs of damage from acute osmotic shock? Its been 24+ hours. The fishes are just hiding. They did eat a little when I fed. Not hyperventilating. Swims away when I poke around their hiding spot. They are in 1ppm copper power. Dont want to wait too long before raising it, in case they are carrying ich or velvet.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Correction - LFS salinity is 20.5ppt or 1.0154, my water is 35ppt or 1.0264 - would you all agree that a 14.5ppt difference (or 0.011 specific gravity) is enough to might have caused the fish to die? I dripped acclimated for a long time.

That is really too much of a rise to take fish through in a single acclimation session. I usually take two days to rise that much. You do that by getting the receiving tank closer to the LFS level and then gradually raising the SG in steps over two days. Of course, you can’t do that with invertebrates .

Here is my article on acclimation:
https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/acclimation-methods.903/

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

@Jay Hemdal. What are the signs of damage from acute osmotic shock? Its been 24+ hours. The fishes are just hiding. They did eat a little when I fed. Not hyperventilating. Swims away when I poke around their hiding spot. They are in 1ppm copper power. Dont want to wait too long before raising it, in case they are carrying ich or velvet.

There isn’t much in the way of symptoms - just shocky actions; rapid breathing, not eating, stress coloration.

It’s subtle, but in some cases, you’ll notice the fish suddenly became thinner (due to dehydration).

 

[furam28]

Both fishes went downhill from day 1. They got more and more lethargic over time. One of the 2 fishes, a half black mimic tang died today. 36 hours post acclimation. It was laying on its side heavy breathing, and after a few hours it was dead. The stomach was swollen. Looking at Jay's other posts, this is a sign of organ damage from the osmotic shock. The other fish, a Masuda Hogfish is very lethargic. Moves its eyes, but barely swims. Has stopped eating. Will be surprised if he makes it past tomorrow.

This is so infuriating. 2 perfectly healthy fishes that were eating and swimming around happily at the LFS. What a waste of good life. Its outright criminal for them to be selling fishes kept at such hypo condition (15ppt / 1.011 sg salinity), without warning the customers. I've only drip acclimated from a lowest salinity of 1.018. Had I known they were at 15ppt salinity I wouldn't have made my purchase, atleast not without doing more research and preparing my QT first. I have had much better luck buying fishes online in the past. My last purchase from NY Aquatic, every single fish including a CBB, made it through full copper and prazi QT with flying colors. They shipped in 1.021 salinity. I want to support LFS but they dont make it easy to do so, when they act so irresponsibly.

 

[W31Olds]

I would return to the LFS you purchased them from and explain the problem and demand a refund, store credit, or replacements. For them to keep their livestock at 1.011 is downright criminal and I wouldn't doubt they will be out of business due to the amount of people losing the fish they just purchased.