LIGHTINH HELP FOR NEW 8 FOOT TANK!!!

[Studjunior]

I set up my new tank in April. It's 8x2x2 = 240g with basement sump in the basement. There is a full build thread in here as well (https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/new-tank-build-for-a-new-house.322041/). On the recommendation of the person I retained to build and install the tank I went with a LED/T5 hybrid solution made up of 4 AI Prime HD evenly spaced out over the tank. These are supplemented with 4, 2 bulb 36" T5 units placed on either side of the AI units. I'm going for an SPS dominated tank. I have been very hesitant in adding SPS to this tank as I wanted to make sure the tank was ready. I waited until Colarline was growing on my new rocks before taking a chance and adding some frags. I have been less than thrilled with my results and have already lost 4 of 10 frags... After watching the BRS review of the AI prime HD I'm now VERY concerned that my lighting is insufficient. I have attached a picture of my current lighting setup.

I'm playing with the idea of adding an additional 3 units over the tank so that I will have approx 1 unit per foot of tank. Would I be throwing good money after bad money??? AM I better off scrapping my existing lighting and going with a better overall solution??

PLEASE HELP!!! My previous tank was all T5 and a lot simpler for me to understand....

 

[jsker]

The only way one can tell is by the grown and health of the corals, if the lights are working.

 

[tj w]

Seems to me you’re going to need more lights. Have you checked pat readings with your current lights?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I would invest in a par meter.

Cal and alk are inexpensive supplements and we test them regularly.

 

[Studjunior]

Seems to me you’re going to need more lights. Have you checked pat readings with your current lights?

No, I don't have a PAR reader. After seeing the PAR values in the BRS review I'm worried. I don't know what the PAR output is from the T5 supplements together with the LEDs.

 

[mcarroll]

It's only a 24" deep tank, so it's not going to take a heroic (an heroic!) level of light to make corals happy. That's in theory.

Is it just an artifact of the photo or are the Primes lighting up the backs of the T5 fixtures? If some of their light is being blocked, it would be a great idea to rectify this.

Is it just me or is there a layer of acrylic between the lights and the water?

Any chance you could post a pic with JUST the T5's on? And then JUST then LED's?

 

[Studjunior]

It's only a 24" deep tank, so it's not going to take a heroic (an heroic!) level of light to make corals happy. That's in theory.

Is it just an artifact of the photo or are the Primes lighting up the backs of the T5 fixtures? If some of their light is being blocked, it would be a great idea to rectify this.

Is it just me or is there a layer of acrylic between the lights and the water?

Any chance you could post a pic with JUST the T5's on? And then JUST then LED's?

The AI fixtures are using hanging kits. And are around 8” off the water. The T5 units are on legs so are a lot lower. There is some of the light being blocked but I didn’t think it’s much especially as my rock work is all centered in the tank.

I needed to deal with humidity/evaporation from the main tank due to lack of ventilation as well as jumping fish so I put in thin acrylic covers over the tank. I don’t know how much that effects the lighting.

When I get home tonight I’ll post pics of the individual light sources on.

 

[mcarroll]

I needed to deal with humidity/evaporation from the main tank due to lack of ventilation as well as jumping fish so I put in thin acrylic covers over the tank. I don’t know how much that effects the lighting.

When I get home tonight I’ll post pics of the individual light sources on.

Cool! If you have time and it's not a lot of bother, get at least one A/B photo with and without the acrylic covers.

If budget is an issue, BTW, I would suggest at minimum a lux meter.....I would not even bother trying to light a reef (or even a houseplany or work area) without one now that I've gotten used to having one!

A PAR meter is definitely better and more accurate if budget is not an issue.....but a lux meter is only $12 if budget is a holdup. Spend the $12 now and save up for the PAR meter. (I have the LX-1010B which you can find for sale at most of the usual online outlets....that one, or any one similar to it would be fine to get you started.)

Having a meter (even a lux meter) would enable you to answer the questions about your lights for yourself, first hand....or at least have actual data points to deal with vs eyeballing it and guessing. That's a good position to be in – even if you still go online for a second opinion.

The covers will probably be more pain than they are worth as they tend to warp AND build up algae and salt deposits pretty quickly.....which necessitates regular cleanings.

You're right about better ventilation being the ticket. Do you have any powered ventilation in there so far? How's it set up?

 

[mcarroll]

The AI fixtures are using hanging kits. And are around 8” off the water. The T5 units are on legs so are a lot lower. There is some of the light being blocked but I didn’t think it’s much especially as my rock work is all centered in the tank.

If there's any problem with the amount of the light in the tank (we're still assuming – I think there's a good chance corals would be fine), then the reducing or eliminating the amount of light being reflected out of the tank can make a big difference. We'll see.

 

[aquaman30k]

The acrylic shields will reduce light penetration a slight amount but you will need to make sure to keep them clean.

For an sps dominated tank, I'd recommend switching the primes with 4 hydra 52 HD's or 6 Hydra 26 HD's. The tank isn't deep but sps do require more par than LPS and softies.

See if your local club has a par meter you can rent. That would give us a better baseline as to what may be needed. If your current par is decent, a few more primes may be all you'll need.

 

[Studjunior]

Cool! If you have time and it's not a lot of bother, get at least one A/B photo with and without the acrylic covers.

If budget is an issue, BTW, I would suggest at minimum a lux meter.....I would not even bother trying to light a reef (or even a houseplany or work area) without one now that I've gotten used to having one!

A PAR meter is definitely better and more accurate if budget is not an issue.....but a lux meter is only $12 if budget is a holdup. Spend the $12 now and save up for the PAR meter. (I have the LX-1010B which you can find for sale at most of the usual online outlets....that one, or any one similar to it would be fine to get you started.)

Having a meter (even a lux meter) would enable you to answer the questions about your lights for yourself, first hand....or at least have actual data points to deal with vs eyeballing it and guessing. That's a good position to be in – even if you still go online for a second opinion.

The covers will probably be more pain than they are worth as they tend to warp AND build up algae and salt deposits pretty quickly.....which necessitates regular cleanings.

You're right about better ventilation being the ticket. Do you have any powered ventilation in there so far? How's it set up?

Right now budget is a major concern if I'm changing/adding lights.....

I started looking into the lux meter, LX-1010B but it doesn't look like it's waterproof, am I missing something??

I might be able to rent a PAR meter from one of the local shops here which would be super helpful!!

I like my wrasses so for the cost of replacing the acrylic covers once a year it's worth while. I agree that it is a pain keeping clean, but only from salt as I have not had any algae issues.

As well, excuse my ignorance but what is an A/B photo???

 

[Studjunior]

It's only a 24" deep tank, so it's not going to take a heroic (an heroic!) level of light to make corals happy. That's in theory.

Is it just an artifact of the photo or are the Primes lighting up the backs of the T5 fixtures? If some of their light is being blocked, it would be a great idea to rectify this.

Is it just me or is there a layer of acrylic between the lights and the water?

Any chance you could post a pic with JUST the T5's on? And then JUST then LED's?

Attached is one pic with just the T5 units on and one with just the 4 AI prime's on

 

[Broadfield]

I have a lot of experience with the Primes in a similarly deep tank... 22", but not with T5 supplements. I found that SPS would slowly grow under the Primes, but only if I had the SPS up high and I had 1 Prime per 12" of tank length. I'm thinking had I also had T5 supplement, I may have gotten good SPS growth... but still only if they were placed high in the tank. So in your case, I think 8 Primes, along with your T5 would get you decent results. But a true SPS dominant tank, top-to-bottom, may require more.

 

[A. grandis]

For SPS I would go with metal halides and supplemental T5s or , because it's only 24" deep, full T5s.
If I really wanted some LEDs for any reason, I would get strips of LEDs to supplement the T5s.
So T5s would be the primary light.
BUT that's only MY opinion.

Nice built! I like the white stand!

Grandis.

 

[mcarroll]

I started looking into the lux meter, LX-1010B but it doesn't look like it's waterproof, am I missing something??

Check this out: Beginner’s Lux

You can get by just fine measuring at the surface – don't put too much on this process before you even get a meter.

You can also put the meter in a ziplock bag like several members here have done.

Seems to work well in practice for those who've done it, and $10-$15 is hardly a risk – but so far I've just measured at the surface with mine. Seems to be plenty of data to do a light setup. I don't even convert to PAR unless I need to talk PAR online. When I do that I use a semi-generic conversion factor (for sunlight) of 50 because it makes for asy math. Conversion factors for most reef lights don't really range much outside of 50-70.

I might be able to rent a PAR meter from one of the local shops here which would be super helpful!!

Do it! Also buy the lux meter.

You can calibrate the lux meter with the PAR meter for your lights.

This way if you want to convert future lux readings to PAR you have an accurate conversion number to use. Typically measuring the whole system at peak intensity and generating your conversion factor from that is all you need. But you might also like to make conversion factors just for reference for the individual lights you use as well.

I like my wrasses so for the cost of replacing the acrylic covers once a year it's worth while. I agree that it is a pain keeping clean, but only from salt as I have not had any algae issues.

Seems like screening would be a better choice.

Attached is one pic with just the T5 units on and one with just the 4 AI prime's on

I dunno if the bright foreground lights are messing with the photos, but it's hard to see a lot of difference between the pics. Maybe post some with ONLY the tank lights on and the room lights off?

 

[rtparty]

You're going to have to decide what your budget is before any real help IMO.

Two more Primes may do the trick and you're only out $450ish. Clump them closer over each island for now so you get maximum PAR over your frags.

 

[James Emory]

Cool! If you have time and it's not a lot of bother, get at least one A/B photo with and without the acrylic covers.

If budget is an issue, BTW, I would suggest at minimum a lux meter.....I would not even bother trying to light a reef (or even a houseplany or work area) without one now that I've gotten used to having one!

A PAR meter is definitely better and more accurate if budget is not an issue.....but a lux meter is only $12 if budget is a holdup. Spend the $12 now and save up for the PAR meter. (I have the LX-1010B which you can find for sale at most of the usual online outlets....that one, or any one similar to it would be fine to get you started.)

Having a meter (even a lux meter) would enable you to answer the questions about your lights for yourself, first hand....or at least have actual data points to deal with vs eyeballing it and guessing. That's a good position to be in – even if you still go online for a second opinion.

The covers will probably be more pain than they are worth as they tend to warp AND build up algae and salt deposits pretty quickly.....which necessitates regular cleanings.

You're right about better ventilation being the ticket. Do you have any powered ventilation in there so far? How's it set up?

The problem with a Lux meter is they are not capable of reading the entire spectrum but favor light in the green/yellow spectrum as perceived by the human eye. A high Lux does not mean anything other than there is bright/intense light present. A PAR meter is more useful as it measures photosynthetic available radiation. Now we come into the PUR, photosynthetic usable radiation. Not all light in the visible spectrum is used or needed by coral. A good example of a good PUR spectral chart is shown.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

The problem with a Lux meter is they are not capable of reading the entire spectrum but favor light in the green/yellow spectrum as perceived by the human eye. A high Lux does not mean anything other than there is bright/intense light present. A PAR meter is more useful as it measures photosynthetic available radiation. Now we come into the PUR, photosynthetic usable radiation. Not all light in the visible spectrum is used or needed by coral. A good example of a good PUR spectral chart is shown.

Conversions are available and fairly accurate. The spectral response of the lux sensor is not that far off.

Conversion factors actually take this into account.

Even with a par meter you can't judge or estimate PUR nor see the spectral frequencies your giving the corals. .

Fwiw. A par meter is just a highly tuned lux meter.