LIVE ROCK RULES: Should the rule for live rock be changed.....again?

X-37B · Feb 20, 2021

liverock said:
I can't tell you how many folks have told me this in the last years as dry rock became popular. On reason dry rock came about was a lack of enough quality live rock in the industry. Back in the day there was many folks out collecting wild live rock for the masses. That all ended in December of 1997, became illegal.

That started the aquaculture age of live rock. Same scenario, not enough cultured live rock as not enough folks were willing to do what had to be done to be a live rock farmer.

We have restocked many a tank that was started with dry rock for the issues mentioned in this thread. Your tank will be happier and with real live rock, no doubt.

The good news is there is going to be plenty of the most killer live rock on the planet again. The hard part is finding suitable substrate that works well for colonization. Ken Neidelmier ,<now his kids> KP aquatics and I were using quarried rock from Homestead Florida's ancient reef tract that has awesome shapes and structure for many years. Great stuff.

Let me tell you how much fun it isn't to go into the mine and hand pick each rock when it is 10,000 degrees in the Florida sun. I made 173 trips doing it. Kudos to KP for keeping it up, is pretty much just torture.

Look closely at the rock very porous and an excellent candidate for culture. Like the piece being whacked on....used to take at least 1/2 a day to put 3-4K pounds on the boat, as you had to climb the piles and pick only the qualifying pieces of rock.

As I write this there are containers of Walt Smith rock being loaded in Fiji right now coming this way. I expect by the end of the year we will be ready to rock and roll again!

Richard TBS

Thats some great news!
Now maybe people will understand why live rock costs what it does.
I will always be glad to pay the premium for it.
My current 120 was 50/50 which I would do again in a heartbeat.

EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal · Feb 20, 2021

liverock said:
I can't tell you how many folks have told me this in the last years as dry rock became popular. On reason dry rock came about was a lack of enough quality live rock in the industry. Back in the day there was many folks out collecting wild live rock for the masses. That all ended in December of 1997, became illegal.

That started the aquaculture age of live rock. Same scenario, not enough cultured live rock as not enough folks were willing to do what had to be done to be a live rock farmer.

We have restocked many a tank that was started with dry rock for the issues mentioned in this thread. Your tank will be happier and with real live rock, no doubt.

The good news is there is going to be plenty of the most killer live rock on the planet again. The hard part is finding suitable substrate that works well for colonization. Ken Neidelmier ,<now his kids> KP aquatics and I were using quarried rock from Homestead Florida's ancient reef tract that has awesome shapes and structure for many years. Great stuff.

Let me tell you how much fun it isn't to go into the mine and hand pick each rock when it is 10,000 degrees in the Florida sun. I made 173 trips doing it. Kudos to KP for keeping it up, is pretty much just torture.

Look closely at the rock very porous and an excellent candidate for culture. Like the piece being whacked on....used to take at least 1/2 a day to put 3-4K pounds on the boat, as you had to climb the piles and pick only the qualifying pieces of rock.

As I write this there are containers of Walt Smith rock being loaded in Fiji right now coming this way. I expect by the end of the year we will be ready to rock and roll again!

Richard TBS

So Tampa Bay Saltwater is NOT going away??? This is great news

Treefer32 · Feb 21, 2021

To me, having run a larger tank for 2 years, having run everything down to a 29 gallon over the last 20 years. One thing that stands out to me now as a moderately experienced reefer: habitat. To me, the filtration is important, but, there's a huge but. The rock isn't the only bio filter. I was reminded that all contact surfaces within the aquarium circulation system are bacterial homes. The PVC piping, the sump, the rocks, the mechanical equipment, etc. I run an algae turf scrubber to export nutrients which also contain bacteria. Now there's different porous blocks to create a massive resort for bacteria in a small space. One of these small bricks could probably take the space of a lot of pounds of rock.

Bacterial population of rock takes a back seat to habitat for my inhabitants. At night all of my fish have their spot, under, in between, and inside of rocks. Cavernous formations, space between the rock and sand, and 2 inch holes in rocks all provide homes for the living creatures to retreat to at night. Protection, homes, and places to escape through is definitely more important than just a place to put corals or store filtering bacteria. How much is enough? Enough to have defensible and safe homes for all the livestock.

liverock · Feb 21, 2021

Erin1971Texas said:
So Tampa Bay Saltwater is NOT going away??? This is great news

Nope....just a bit of covid break......!!!

siggy · Feb 21, 2021

Been running bio media for over 3 years, I found I don't need that much live rock, I do have a sand bed so I guess that can be considered LR.

Wen · Feb 24, 2021

liverock said:
I can't tell you how many folks have told me this in the last years as dry rock became popular. On reason dry rock came about was a lack of enough quality live rock in the industry. Back in the day there was many folks out collecting wild live rock for the masses. That all ended in December of 1997, became illegal.

That started the aquaculture age of live rock. Same scenario, not enough cultured live rock as not enough folks were willing to do what had to be done to be a live rock farmer.

We have restocked many a tank that was started with dry rock for the issues mentioned in this thread. Your tank will be happier and with real live rock, no doubt.

The good news is there is going to be plenty of the most killer live rock on the planet again. The hard part is finding suitable substrate that works well for colonization. Ken Neidelmier ,<now his kids> KP aquatics and I were using quarried rock from Homestead Florida's ancient reef tract that has awesome shapes and structure for many years. Great stuff.

Let me tell you how much fun it isn't to go into the mine and hand pick each rock when it is 10,000 degrees in the Florida sun. I made 173 trips doing it. Kudos to KP for keeping it up, is pretty much just torture.

Look closely at the rock very porous and an excellent candidate for culture. Like the piece being whacked on....used to take at least 1/2 a day to put 3-4K pounds on the boat, as you had to climb the piles and pick only the qualifying pieces of rock.

As I write this there are containers of Walt Smith rock being loaded in Fiji right now coming this way. I expect by the end of the year we will be ready to rock and roll again!

Richard TBS

Hey Richard, you have years of experience aquaculturing different types of rock on your lease site. What kind of rock is your favorite and least favorite?

liverock · Feb 25, 2021

Hands down Walt smith....best requirement of life...best shapes, and the best I have ever used in almost 40 years of this....and I would not say there is a worst....just some harder to acquire and grow out to my expectations!

liverock · Feb 27, 2021

auto spell got me 'recruitment'

sbreefco · Mar 1, 2021

It is a shame there is so much incorrect information and just lies being told in these forums.

vlangel · Mar 1, 2021

I have been in this hobby a long time, since the 90s. Back then we only used live rock or dead coral skeletons. The LFS that I worked for as an aquarium maintenance tech said that 2lbs per gallon was the accepted amount of live rock. We set our tanks up with that formula for live rock and deep sandbeds. I am in my 60s now so no longer do tank maintenance for them but know that several of those tanks are still in operation and have never crashed! Like Paul B's tank, it is hard to argue with that kind of longevity.

I think there are several reason for such longevity.
1. Live rock provides a very stable bio-filter that is very efficient as long as it has oxygen.
2. Live rock has an amazing amount of diversity of life, from tiny copepods, amphipods to, inverts, worms, sponges, macro algae and coral. Each one of these creatures/life plays it's part in the balance of the eco-system. We rarely had cyano back in the 90s and early 2000s and never even heard of dinos. I think that was in part due to using higher quantities of live rock.

3. Live rock with a proper clean up crew and some macro algae needs almost no maintenance. I do not even run a skimmer.

Finally I want to say that 2lbs of live rock per gallon does not have to look like the ominous rock wall/pile. I use some of my rock as a retaining wall for creating areas in my display tank that can have a deep sandbed. Both the rock and sandbed help with denitrification which is helpful if you like to keep a lot of fish like I do.