Looking for input on 8' pod-focused sump design

[blitzkragz]

Around a year ago I started a build for my 12' tank (see build thread for details). My existing sump though is woefully inadequate for the size of the display. It doesn't even come close to being able to hold the 70+ gal of backflow if the power goes out.

Another primary goal is that I want to have a low-maintenance massive pod population, so I can add pickier fish like Mandarins to my system. My understanding is that to get massive pods, you need to not just have a place for them to hide, but they need phytoplankton. Adult pods hang out on the bottom, but juveniles are free swimming and feed on floating phyto.

I stumbled on this video by Reefgrrl where she simplifies that process by freezing small cubes of phyto and dosing them every so often. But my system is so large, it would be cost prohibitive to dose that much phyto, and it would get filtered out by my drum filter. So that got me thinking a good plan would be a separate low-flow section of my sump dedicated to dosing phyto and raising pods, where adults could eventually graduate and make their way to the DT.

Here is a sump design I have come up with, which incorporates a bypass. I plan to have it made by advancedacrylics.com. I am just wondering if anyone out there has any thoughts on this setup or if I should just go for it?

 

[BigMo]

Around a year ago I started a build for my 12' tank (see build thread for details). My existing sump though

Love your thread for your Reef tank, been following it since the start, lots of good points in there to learn, thanks for sharing.

Just a thought on your new sump and copepod culture.
1- if you have the space, why not keeping your current sump and just add a tank for your refugium and copepods? You can control the flow and also copepods can enjoy living in your cheato.
2- your lovely and powerful drum filter may cause a problem for your copepods and trap them.

 

[fermentedhiker]

I don't see a dimension for the Chaeto fuge. Since you specify an H380 and it is specd for 24" of coverage I probably wouldn't make it any longer than that. Just a thought.

 

[blitzkragz]

Love your thread for your Reef tank, been following it since the start, lots of good points in there to learn, thanks for sharing.

Just a thought on your new sump and copepod culture.
1- if you have the space, why not keeping your current sump and just add a tank for your refugium and copepods? You can control the flow and also copepods can enjoy living in your cheato.
2- your lovely and powerful drum filter may cause a problem for your copepods and trap them.

Thank you for replying!

I do have the room in my basement, but in addition to my pod dreams, I absolutely must have a considerably larger sump to handle the amount of backflow that comes from the surface area of the 12' display tank.

My current sump setup can only handle around 20 gallons of backflow, and I estimate around 70 gallons of capacity is needed. So if the power goes out without me being prepared, around 50 gallons of water would be on my basement floor.

Rather than making a complex piping between modules, it is just cleanest I think to just go for a single massive sump with everything contained within it.

I do understand what you are saying about pods and the drum filter though. My hope is that the adult pods that make it up to the display will quickly find structure to cling to rather than be free swimming and into the overflow.

 

[crusso1993]

Really liking your idea on the cryptic zone for the pods, sponges and other cool critters known to live in them.

Couple quick questions;
1.) Will you be going 100% blackout?
2.) Have you considered switching the cryptic zone and normal fuge in their order of the sump? I would think a large part of your pod population would remain in your chaeto (once you have decent growth) and not necessarily make it to your DT.

 

[fermentedhiker]

Looking at your bypass arrangement I wonder if rearranging the sump might be simpler. Ie put the chaeto section where your pod fuge is, then put the return section, then place the pod fuge on the end. The pod fuge would have a higher water level and empty back into the return section. Feed water to the pod/cryptic fuge via a T and valvle arrangement off the return pipe. Seems like it might be simpler to implement than an adjustable weir type bypass.

 

[BigMo]

Looking at your bypass arrangement I wonder if rearranging the sump might be simpler. Ie put the chaeto section where your pod fuge is, then put the return

I like this idea allot
Also while you are at it why not add a second return pump, as it is highly recommended by BRS on their latest YouTube update on BRS 160.

 

[blitzkragz]

Really liking your idea on the cryptic zone for the pods, sponges and other cool critters known to live in them.

Couple quick questions;
1.) Will you be going 100% blackout?
2.) Have you considered switching the cryptic zone and normal fuge in their order of the sump? I would think a large part of your pod population would remain in your chaeto (once you have decent growth) and not necessarily make it to your DT.

It would not be 100% blackout, at least that is not my intent. But it would not be directly lit, either.

Good idea and point about swiching the cryptic zone and fuge. My intent is absolutely for as many pods to make it to the DT as possible, so it sure would make sense to have the cryptic zone have an escape route directly to the return chamber.

 

[blitzkragz]

Looking at your bypass arrangement I wonder if rearranging the sump might be simpler. Ie put the chaeto section where your pod fuge is, then put the return section, then place the pod fuge on the end. The pod fuge would have a higher water level and empty back into the return section. Feed water to the pod/cryptic fuge via a T and valvle arrangement off the return pipe. Seems like it might be simpler to implement than an adjustable weir type bypass.

I like this idea! So like a return section in the middle, and two large sections flanking it.

 

[fermentedhiker]

I like this idea! So like a return section in the middle, and two large sections flanking it.

Yes, or you could put both fuges on the other side of the return if you like. Center return chambers popped up when people used to run high flow through their sump but wanted lower flow through the fuge. By putting a T on the return line they could use a valve to control how much flow went to the fuge .

 

[blitzkragz]

I like this idea allot
Also while you are at it why not add a second return pump, as it is highly recommended by BRS on their latest YouTube update on BRS 160.

I did think about dual return pumps, but in my basement setup there is 12' of head, so the pump choices and their efficiency at that head height is limited. Really the only option for me was an Abyzz a400, which has a 10-year guarantee. I have absolute faith in the pump, getting a second one at $2600 seemed un-necessary.

 

[JoshH]

I like this idea! So like a return section in the middle, and two large sections flanking it.

Exactly how my new sump is set up, Mechanical filtration on one end and Fuge on the opposite end. I have a frag section in the center that spills into the return section in the back middle of the sump. It will let me control the flow to both the mechanical and fuge ends individually and easily, couple gate valves and you're all set!

 

[blitzkragz]

Exactly how my new sump is set up, Mechanical filtration on one end and Fuge on the opposite end. I have a frag section in the center that spills into the return section in the back middle of the sump. It will let me control the flow to both the mechanical and fuge ends individually and easily, couple gate valves and you're all set!

I had a look at your sump on your build thread, it is looking fantastic! If you have any more pictures of it I am really curious to see what it looks like head-on.

 

[JoshH]

I had a look at your sump on your build thread, it is looking fantastic! If you have any more pictures of it I am really curious to see what it looks like head-on.

It's still in the building phase right now but I will bug Kyle for some more pics soon lol

I will add that in all honesty, you're tank is HUGE, I know that you certainly do need a larger sump. BUT, I think a phyto culture and dosing will be cheap, easy to upkeep alternative. Your tank is big enough to support a huge pod population without any dosing or fuge as it is. Just trying to get you to think out of the box here a little.

 

[crusso1993]

I had a look at your sump on your build thread, it is looking fantastic! If you have any more pictures of it I am really curious to see what it looks like head-on.

Be careful here... he might want to charge you for pics! ;Hilarious

 

[JoshH]

Be careful here... he might want to charge you for pics! ;Hilarious

Humm.... not a bad idea ;Writing...

Might cover a controller board in the future

 

[blitzkragz]

It's still in the building phase right now but I will bug Kyle for some more pics soon lol

I will add that in all honesty, you're tank is HUGE, I know that you certainly do need a larger sump. BUT, I think a phyto culture and dosing will be cheap, easy to upkeep alternative. Your tank is big enough to support a huge pod population without any dosing or fuge as it is. Just trying to get you to think out of the box here a little.

The display certainly is big, but with the livestock I think it will need a constant massive supply. I have tried 4 times seeding my sump with the AlgaeBarn 5280 pods. There are a few that I notice in the sump now and then, but nothing like what would be needed to sustain a mandarin. So either they didn't have enough food, enough room, or calm enough waters to flourish. And not once -- not ever, have I ever seen a copepod in the display tank.

The amount of phyto they recommend to dose for a 400 gallon system is a ton. So my thought was a low-flow cryptic zone of maybe 40gal where I can keep the phyto contained for a longer period of time to grow pods would be my best bet.

I am really smitten with reefgrrl's idea of the small frozen phyto cubes. They last 2 years in the freezer, are super concentrated, and would be so convenient to just plop a cube in. I wouldn't put it beyond me if things work out to have like a mini freezer over the sump that spits a cube out of a chute every couple days.

 

[JoshH]

I am really smitten with reefgrrl's idea of the small frozen phyto cubes. They last 2 years in the freezer, are super concentrated, and would be so convenient to just plop a cube in. I wouldn't put it beyond me if things work out to have like a mini freezer over the sump that spits a cube out of a chute every couple days.

I do believe there is a frozen cube feeder in the works right now, they have a kickstarter campaign on the go.

InD Creations Automatic Frozen Fish Food Feeder | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

The Automatic Frozen Fish Food Feeder as a concept is something that we’ve seen before in home DIY incarnations, but never in a professionally developed, commercial version. InD Creations aims to…

reefbuilders.com

As for the rest, have you actively searched for pods in your system at night about an hour or two after lights out? So your plan is to basically dose phyto to a separate environment to feed a smaller section of your sump and sustain a pod population there.

 

[blitzkragz]

I do believe there is a frozen cube feeder in the works right now, they have a kickstarter campaign on the go.

As for the rest, have you actively searched for pods in your system at night about an hour or two after lights out? So your plan is to basically dose phyto to a separate environment to feed a smaller section of your sump and sustain a pod population there.

I look in there almost nightly just before bed. But not actively looking for pods. I will do so tonight!

Yes, my plan is to dose phyto to a separate but connected low-flowthru environment, with a small bottom gate adult pods can use to escape to the return chamber. When copepods reproduce, the juveniles are free-swimming, and to grow and become adults they need phyto in the water column, then as they become adults they settle/cling to the bottom. Having the juveniles in the water column of my display would mean certain death because of the rotary drum filter. So they need a dedicated place to grow up.

And regarding the auto cube feeder:

 

[JoshH]

At night about an hour orso after lights out, take a good hard look at your sandbed or rock surfaces. I'm willing to bet you'd be a little surprised. How did you dose the pods to your system when you tried to seed them?

I do think that your plan will work with a slightly simpler design approach as mentioned above.