Lost 2 fish in qt not sure why

Lgara1303

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Just looking for everyone’s opinion and feedback on what they think could have happened

So I started a quarantine tank. 20 gallon long with a coralife 40gallon filter. I have the fter pad and some anommia remover pad in there. PVC and a 100w heater. I have not medicated any of the fish. I am going to talk about. They have all just been an observation. I added a yellow corris wrasse on April 4 and he is still in there and has been doing fine ever since I would say around two weeks later I added a royal grandma which also had done fine and both of them were doing well I would say around 2 to 3 weeks later I added a neon wrasse which was a spontaneous buy needless to say he ate the next day and seemed fine however, two days later I found him dead.  I didn’t really think too much of it and just let it go on hoping he just died from stress or something. My plan was to leave the other two fish in for another four weeks to give them time to show any signs of symptoms from anything and if all went well, I would add them to my display tank fast. I would say three almost 4 weeks as my plan was to add them this Friday. I just found my royal gramma dead this morning…. yesterday he was in the corner hiding but I didn’t think much of it because it’s his corner he hides in and he’s usually skittish. He was also eating the day before and that morning.

 I have been doing weekly 10% water changes on this system. It is a 20 gallon tank. I have tested my pneumonia quite frequently and it has always been at zero and all of my other parameters within check. The only thing that has changed recently is the temperature. My tanks are in a garage and it has been really hot this week. Normally my tanks sit around 78° and will sometimes go up to 80°. That is my 75 gallon tank however 20 gallon tank in my even smaller 12 gallon frag tank has got up to 84° throughout the day, I know this is because of their smaller size in the frag tank. I am already upgrading, but I’m not sure if that could be cause for death or not, but it is the only thing that has really changed. Now I’m issue is also moving the yellow wrasse or if I’m going to have to wait even longer i’m not sure if the quarantine tank is the reason they could be getting stressed out and dying or whatever just looking for anyone with a lot more knowledge feedback on what they think could’ve happened no signs of any diseases no white spots anything like that I’ll get better pictures
 

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QT tanks are indeed very stressful to fish. It helps if hiding spots are added, and the water should be well oxygenated.

Those wrasses should be in larger tanks than a 20, so adding a wrasse then adding fish afterwards creates territory issue's.

Also it is unusual to add fish to QT in a staggered way like that, you should finish QT one fish before adding another, or you can contaminate the fish in your QT like that.

This is just general QT comments, #fishmedics can provide more help as to what is happening to your fish
 
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vetteguy53081

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Just looking for everyone’s opinion and feedback on what they think could have happened

So I started a quarantine tank. 20 gallon long with a coralife 40gallon filter. I have the fter pad and some anommia remover pad in there. PVC and a 100w heater. I have not medicated any of the fish. I am going to talk about. They have all just been an observation. I added a yellow corris wrasse on April 4 and he is still in there and has been doing fine ever since I would say around two weeks later I added a royal grandma which also had done fine and both of them were doing well I would say around 2 to 3 weeks later I added a neon wrasse which was a spontaneous buy needless to say he ate the next day and seemed fine however, two days later I found him dead.  I didn’t really think too much of it and just let it go on hoping he just died from stress or something. My plan was to leave the other two fish in for another four weeks to give them time to show any signs of symptoms from anything and if all went well, I would add them to my display tank fast. I would say three almost 4 weeks as my plan was to add them this Friday. I just found my royal gramma dead this morning…. yesterday he was in the corner hiding but I didn’t think much of it because it’s his corner he hides in and he’s usually skittish. He was also eating the day before and that morning.

 I have been doing weekly 10% water changes on this system. It is a 20 gallon tank. I have tested my pneumonia quite frequently and it has always been at zero and all of my other parameters within check. The only thing that has changed recently is the temperature. My tanks are in a garage and it has been really hot this week. Normally my tanks sit around 78° and will sometimes go up to 80°. That is my 75 gallon tank however 20 gallon tank in my even smaller 12 gallon frag tank has got up to 84° throughout the day, I know this is because of their smaller size in the frag tank. I am already upgrading, but I’m not sure if that could be cause for death or not, but it is the only thing that has really changed. Now I’m issue is also moving the yellow wrasse or if I’m going to have to wait even longer i’m not sure if the quarantine tank is the reason they could be getting stressed out and dying or whatever just looking for anyone with a lot more knowledge feedback on what they think could’ve happened no signs of any diseases no white spots anything like that I’ll get better pictures
Not medicating was first downfall as any present disease would be allowed to progress
Additionally, any signs of heavy breathing or unusual behavior like hiding, swimming at surface?
Were you monitoring ammonia levels and how were you doing so?
 
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Lgara1303

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Not medicating was first downfall as any present disease would be allowed to progress
Additionally, any signs of heavy breathing or unusual behavior like hiding, swimming at surface?
Were you monitoring ammonia levels and how were you doing so?
Yes, I agree I should have medicated. However, this is my first quarantine tank and it was just stressful for me. I figured I would just observe these fish and see how everything went before deciding on medicating. I was running an aerator for a while, but it was constantly scaring my yellow wrasse… I seen no signs of heavy breathing. The only thing I noticed was the day before the Royal was hiding in the corner, but like I said, it’s his normal corner and he’s sometimes usually skittish other than that. I didn’t notice they were doing like I was planning on taking them out today.

I was monitoring annomia via api and doing weekly water changes.

No swimming at the surface either and I do agree that quarantine tanks are stressful, but it seems like once I added the royal to the tank my wrasse was a lot less stressed out and happy to have someone in there ever since then he’s a lot more active swimming and all over the tank compared to before he was a lot more skittish.

I’d also like to add my local fish store had the royal grandma for at least three weeks before I got him and that’s why I also got him to give them long enough to see how he would do with everything
 

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Just looking for everyone’s opinion and feedback on what they think could have happened

So I started a quarantine tank. 20 gallon long with a coralife 40gallon filter. I have the fter pad and some anommia remover pad in there. PVC and a 100w heater. I have not medicated any of the fish. I am going to talk about. They have all just been an observation. I added a yellow corris wrasse on April 4 and he is still in there and has been doing fine ever since I would say around two weeks later I added a royal grandma which also had done fine and both of them were doing well I would say around 2 to 3 weeks later I added a neon wrasse which was a spontaneous buy needless to say he ate the next day and seemed fine however, two days later I found him dead.  I didn’t really think too much of it and just let it go on hoping he just died from stress or something. My plan was to leave the other two fish in for another four weeks to give them time to show any signs of symptoms from anything and if all went well, I would add them to my display tank fast. I would say three almost 4 weeks as my plan was to add them this Friday. I just found my royal gramma dead this morning…. yesterday he was in the corner hiding but I didn’t think much of it because it’s his corner he hides in and he’s usually skittish. He was also eating the day before and that morning.

 I have been doing weekly 10% water changes on this system. It is a 20 gallon tank. I have tested my pneumonia quite frequently and it has always been at zero and all of my other parameters within check. The only thing that has changed recently is the temperature. My tanks are in a garage and it has been really hot this week. Normally my tanks sit around 78° and will sometimes go up to 80°. That is my 75 gallon tank however 20 gallon tank in my even smaller 12 gallon frag tank has got up to 84° throughout the day, I know this is because of their smaller size in the frag tank. I am already upgrading, but I’m not sure if that could be cause for death or not, but it is the only thing that has really changed. Now I’m issue is also moving the yellow wrasse or if I’m going to have to wait even longer i’m not sure if the quarantine tank is the reason they could be getting stressed out and dying or whatever just looking for anyone with a lot more knowledge feedback on what they think could’ve happened no signs of any diseases no white spots anything like that I’ll get better pictures
Sorry to hear.

I can’t really say if these losses were due to disease or water quality issues, but as said, it is best the start preventative treatments right away on new fish. The first page of this post explains that:

 
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Lgara1303

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MnFish1

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QT tanks are indeed very stressful to fish. It helps if hiding spots are added, and the water should be well oxygenated.

Those wrasses should be in larger tanks than a 20, so adding a wrasse then adding fish afterwards creates territory issue's.

Also it is unusual to add fish to QT in a staggered way like that, you should finish QT one fish before adding another, or you can contaminate the fish in your QT like that.

This is just general QT comments, #fishmedics can provide more help as to what is happening to your fish
Your comments are correct. It's best to start group 1 and not add anything else. Also - IMHO - observation should switch to 'treatment' if there are symptoms. Though there may have been another reason for the death - at that point (as I just noticed others have mentioned) - I would have treated. What is your plan now? Are there still fish that are in QT?
 

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I noticed a lack of places for the fish to hide. I use different sizes of scrap PVC Pipe and fittings, just pushed together to make it interesting. If I add a fish, I reconfigure the setup, to break up territories. Also when I change the water, I use water from my Display, and refill Display from my Mixing Brute.
 
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Lgara1303

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Your comments are correct. It's best to start group 1 and not add anything else. Also - IMHO - observation should switch to 'treatment' if there are symptoms. Though there may have been another reason for the death - at that point (as I just noticed others have mentioned) - I would have treated. What is your plan now? Are there still fish that are in QT?
Yes the yellow wrasse is still in there not really sure what my plan is he still seems to be doing great and is very active. My concern is keeping him in the quarantine tank at this point but also concerned if he would catch anything….
 

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Yes the yellow wrasse is still in there not really sure what my plan is he still seems to be doing great and is very active. My concern is keeping him in the quarantine tank at this point but also concerned if he would catch anything….
So - do you have quarantined fish in your display tank? If so - I would consider putting all of them through the QT process - and leave your tank fallow for 8 weeks (IF there was no evidence of disease you could hold off on it) - but it seems like this may be a recurring problem. Could you send a picture of your tank
 
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Lgara1303

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So - do you have quarantined fish in your display tank? If so - I would consider putting all of them through the QT process - and leave your tank fallow for 8 weeks (IF there was no evidence of disease you could hold off on it) - but it seems like this may be a recurring problem. Could you send a picture of your tank
Not sure why I would do that ? Or what my display would have to do with my fish in qt dying ? I have 3 pajamas Cardinals, and an anthias in my display all of which went through an observation period in a qt and have had no problems since adding they have been in over 2 months now. I could understand putting them through qt if there was signs but there is no signs of anything in my display and that wasn’t the problem.

I guess I’m just confused on the display part as none of these fish have been in the display or anything to do with it ? And all fish on display are perfect right now

Picture is from awhile ago I will get an updated one.
 

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MnFish1

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Not sure why I would do that ? Or what my display would have to do with my fish in qt dying ? I have 3 pajamas Cardinals, and an anthias in my display all of which went through an observation period in a qt and have had no problems since adding they have been in over 2 months now. I could understand putting them through qt if there was signs but there is no signs of anything in my display and that wasn’t the problem.

I guess I’m just confused on the display part as none of these fish have been in the display or anything to do with it ? And all fish on display are perfect right now

Picture is from awhile ago I will get an updated one.
There are a couple reasons. First, if a person has quarantined all of the fish in his/her display with medication, there is a risk of undoing all that effort by adding non-quarantined/medicated fish. Second, if a person has not treated the fish in your tank (your situation), but you have the new ones, it means the new ones may catch something when you add them to the display. Generally speaking - the best plan is to have all of your fish medicated and quarantined the same way, if possible. Note - not all fish show illness in the presence of ich etc. So the fact that they have passed observation quarantine is great - but not foolproof. I think, in general, you're correct that the current situation is lower risk.
 
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Lgara1303

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Yes I agree... I wish I would have just medacticated everything now I am stuck on adding the Yellow Wrasse to the display hoping he will do fine and nothing is wrong with him also because I am concerned with how the QT is being stressful on them and the Temp it's getting compared to the display.. OBVI don't want to go against what should be done and medicate I think this wouldn't be such a problem if the Royal didn't die so unexpectedly and without signs.. I would hate to add yellow wrasse and him die in 2 weeks from whatever could have killed the Royal... I do know once the yellow Wrasse is out I will be tearing down and Deconning the QT and then resetting up with the intend to medicate all fish.

I personally think a lot of diseases are based on the stress of the fish and how stressed they are as well as getting it from other fish. So basically the last thing I want to do is stress this Yellow wrasse in anyway not to mention I would be very upset losing him as he is the perfect size and I have really wanted this fish in my display since I started setting up...

I may watch yellow wrasse a few more days and see what I think. I know everyone would suggest medicating him. It just seems even more stressful to me and the fish after this long and everything. I am also in the process of building a new frag tank that will go where this is and this qt will go on a rack in a more chilled area in hopes stuff goes better so leaving this tank up will drag that out even longer. If anything like I said I will leave him in for a little to decide or become more comfortable with medicating him.
There are a couple reasons. First, if a person has quarantined all of the fish in his/her display with medication, there is a risk of undoing all that effort by adding non-quarantined/medicated fish. Second, if a person has not treated the fish in your tank (your situation), but you have the new ones, it means the new ones may catch something when you add them to the display. Generally speaking - the best plan is to have all of your fish medicated and quarantined the same way, if possible. Note - not all fish show illness in the presence of ich etc. So the fact that they have passed observation quarantine is great - but not foolproof. I think, in general, you're correct that the current situation is lower risk.
 

MnFish1

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Yes I agree... I wish I would have just medacticated everything now I am stuck on adding the Yellow Wrasse to the display hoping he will do fine and nothing is wrong with him also because I am concerned with how the QT is being stressful on them and the Temp it's getting compared to the display.. OBVI don't want to go against what should be done and medicate I think this wouldn't be such a problem if the Royal didn't die so unexpectedly and without signs.. I would hate to add yellow wrasse and him die in 2 weeks from whatever could have killed the Royal... I do know once the yellow Wrasse is out I will be tearing down and Deconning the QT and then resetting up with the intend to medicate all fish.

I personally think a lot of diseases are based on the stress of the fish and how stressed they are as well as getting it from other fish. So basically the last thing I want to do is stress this Yellow wrasse in anyway not to mention I would be very upset losing him as he is the perfect size and I have really wanted this fish in my display since I started setting up...

I may watch yellow wrasse a few more days and see what I think. I know everyone would suggest medicating him. It just seems even more stressful to me and the fish after this long and everything. I am also in the process of building a new frag tank that will go where this is and this qt will go on a rack in a more chilled area in hopes stuff goes better so leaving this tank up will drag that out even longer. If anything like I said I will leave him in for a little to decide or become more comfortable with medicating him.
Also remember the warmer the temperature (within reason) - the faster bacteria reproduce - and the lower the oxygen levels in the tank are
 
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