Lost a couple of fish in new tank build.

[stephenwjr]

Started my tank back in December in a bucket in the garage and added microbacter. Two clowns and aqua scape.

Transferred the fish and aqua scape after the new year to a 36 gallon corner tank with a fluval 306 canister filter. No lighting until this May. Also added live sand about 2 weeks after setting up the tank.

PH ~8.0
Salinity 34ppt
No ammonia
No Nitrite or Nitrate
No Phos
Copper ~ 1.5ppm

Started with two snow flake clowns and I have been adding two fish at a time several weeks apart. The first two are goby's. A yellow prawn aka watchmen and a blue streak. These guys are doing great and help with keeping the sand clean. About two week later I added a Tang and coral banded shrimp. The shrimp died within two days and the tang seemed fine and all fish have been eating well. About a week later I added two more fish, a yellow tail and domino damsel. After adding the damsel's, my tang started showing signs of stress. He was displaying some discoloration on his body(like blotches) and hiding behind and under the aqua scape. Soon after he died and then the domino showed signs of stress with the dark black body starting to fade and what looked to be a white film on his side. I went to the lfs and picked up some coppersafe and dosed the tank just below the recommended level. The domino passed this morning but all other fish seem to be healthy and eating. I am waiting for my copper test kit to arrive so I can monitor the amount of copper in the tank to prevent over dosing. I will treat the tank with copper for at least a month and dose with microbacter 7 to maintain the bio system.

Please let me know if you have any suggestions.

Thanks,
1NC0GNIT0

 

[JumboShrimp]

All of us are just one diseased LFS fish away from disaster. Did you quarantine your new arrivals, or just take your chances?

 

[stephenwjr]

All of us are just one diseased LFS fish away from disaster. Did you quarantine your new arrivals, or just take your chances?

I do not have QT tanks so my goal is to add all the fish first, get them healthy then start adding coral some time in May when I turn the light on.

 

[JumboShrimp]

Am I understanding, then, that your rocks are in your display tank, and you are adding copper? Sorry if I’m confused.

 

[stephenwjr]

Am I understanding, then, that your rocks are in your display tank, and you are adding copper? Sorry if I’m confused.

That is correct. I was reading that the rocks can absorb the copper. Should I put the rock into the tub in the garage?

 

[JumboShrimp]

Yes, I hate to say that I think you have done things a bit too fast, and a bit too backwards. We all here want you to be successful and have maximum fun! Those ‘copper-rocks’ will likely not be suitable for your future corals and inverts for a long time to come— and even that would take some know-how. Ask more questions here on R2R first (there are no dumb questions), and you won’t have to back-track.

 

[stephenwjr]

Yes, I hate to say that I think you have done things a bit too fast, and a bit too backwards. We all here want you to be successful and have maximum fun! Those ‘copper-rocks’ will likely not be suitable for your future corals and inverts for a long time to come— and even that would take some know-how. Ask more questions here on R2R first (there are no dumb questions), and you won’t have to back-track.

Thank you for the help.

The copper has been in the tank less then 24 hours. Can I still salvage the rock and what about the sand?

 

[Skynyrd Fish]

Leave the copper in the tank. Add whatever other fish you want. Then after copper it’s time to de-copper the tank. this will take time. You will start with a couple large water changes a week apart. After the first large water change you will run cuprasorb and activated carbon. After the second large water change you will replace the cuprasorb and carbon. You will be running cuprasorb for a while. I would say six months. Afte three weeks I would send an ATI water test in. If copper is in range you can test corals, snails, hermits and shrimp. My tank is living prof. I treated with copper years ago, and three years ago had an issue with a rusty magnet and a bad ro membrane. My Hanna copper tester showed .14 copper. Cuprasorb saved my sps. By large water change I mean 80%.

 

[stephenwjr]

Leave the copper in the tank. Add whatever other fish you want. Then after copper it’s time to de-copper the tank. this will take time. You will start with a couple large water changes a week apart. After the first large water change you will run cuprasorb and activated carbon. After the second large water change you will replace the cuprasorb and carbon. You will be running cuprasorb for a while. I would say six months. Afte three weeks I would send an ATI water test in. If copper is in range you can test corals, snails, hermits and shrimp. My tank is living prof. I treated with copper years ago, and three years ago had an issue with a rusty magnet and a bad ro membrane. My Hanna copper tester showed .14 copper. Cuprasorb saved my sps. By large water change I mean 80%.

Well I was not going to put lights on until after 5 months, so guess I have longer to wait. I will follow your advice and see how things go. Live and Learn. Thanks again for the help and advice.

 

[JumboShrimp]

I think @Skynyrd Fish has mapped out your best course of action going forward, especially if you are on a one-tank budget. Basically I hear him saying ‘own’ the mistake, and make it up on the back end with cooper removal. Early on I had to ‘nuke’ a FOWLR tank three (3) times— rock & sand— due to Marine Velvet. But I doubt those rocks would be harmful at this point, so far down the road. (Do know that a Hanna ‘High Level’ Copper Checker will probably give you a false/inaccurate reading on the back end, when you get the copper way, way down.)

 

[Skynyrd Fish]

On the upside, you can add all fish you want and then do copper removal. Go ahead and turn on low light when your ready. the way I see it you are thirty days of copper then copper removal. It looks like you started with dry rock, so you will be good. I think your still on your time table. Bare bottom helps also. if you could add all the fish you want by Friday, you could be ready for tester snails and coral by end of March. The key is the large water changes and running a couple bags of cuprasorb in a reactor or high flow area.

This spring I want to set up a cube I was givin. I will probably add a crap load of fish and treat with copper. Then I will remove the copper and add live rock and corals. It’s the only way I can qt all fish at once. I will never add a fish that is not QT’d. it’s a 160 gallon.

 

[Tamberav]

That seems like a whole lot of fish... some not appropriate for a 36g tank and some aggressive...added too fast to a brand new tank. It’s a recipe for messing with their immune systems and causing stress.

Slow down and plan each addition carefully. Reefing isn’t a race... it’s a journey.

 

[stephenwjr]

That seems like a whole lot of fish... some not appropriate for a 36g tank and some aggressive...added too fast to a brand new tank. It’s a recipe for messing with their immune systems and causing stress.

Slow down and plan each addition carefully. Reefing isn’t a race... it’s a journey.

What is an appropriate number of fish for a 36 gallon tank? My goal was to have utilitarian fish. The goby's and tang's being the heart of the system. Was also going to add one or two six line wrasses. The clowns are just for cycling and can be taken back to the lfs. My wife wanted the damsels so got those to make her happy but not needed.

Thank You for any advice you have.

 

[Tamberav]

What is an appropriate number of fish for a 36 gallon tank? My goal was to have utilitarian fish. The goby's and tang's being the heart of the system. Was also going to add one or two six line wrasses. The clowns are just for cycling and can be taken back to the lfs. My wife wanted the damsels so got those to make her happy but not needed.

Thank You for any advice you have.

Tangs get aggressive in cramped spaces. This gets more obvious over time. They should have more space so they don’t feel the need to protect such a small area. Domino damsels are mean and grow large and capable of killing other fish. There’s no where victims to hide in a 36. Six lines are also mean and two in a 36g is probably asking for a fight to the death.

Bluestreak goby is iffy... it’s a small tank with no established sand bed for them to eat from.

Watchmen and clowns are fine. The yellowtail might be okay but could be an issue with fish added after it.

Utilitarian fish for a 36g is more like a small algae blenny (which shouldn’t be added until you have algae for it to eat) pink streak, and pistol shrimp.

Quite frankly though you don’t need any sort of fish for utilitarian purposes. It can all be done with inverts and good husbandry.

 

[JumboShrimp]

(I didn’t want to add to your troubles and make you feel picked-on, but this whole thread I was thinking ‘wrong fish’ for that tank. Sorry to say @Tamberav is right.)

 

[stephenwjr]

(I didn’t want to add to your troubles and make you feel picked-on, but this whole thread I was thinking ‘wrong fish’ for that tank. Sorry to say @Tamberav is right.)

Thanks again, I am learning and do not feel picked on. This is a learning process and thought I had done my research. At this point I will not add anymore fish and let the copper do its job. In about a month I will do the recommended 80% water changes a week apart with cuprasorb and carbon. It is awesome how everyone here a R2R help. I can only become a better reefer with your advice.

 

[JCLBUDDY]

(I didn’t want to add to your troubles and make you feel picked-on, but this whole thread I was thinking ‘wrong fish’ for that tank. Sorry to say @Tamberav is right.)

Just as an aside to this great advice....Damsels seem to Always be much more trouble than their brilliant colors and activity lead U to believe. And TOUGH TO CATCH

 

[stephenwjr]

Just as an aside to this great advice....Damsels seem to Always be much more trouble than their brilliant colors and activity lead U to believe. And TOUGH TO CATCH

I was able to catch this damsel and take him back to the lfs so he will no longer be a problem.

Thanks for all the great advice everyone!

 

[stephenwjr]

Leave the copper in the tank. Add whatever other fish you want. Then after copper it’s time to de-copper the tank. this will take time. You will start with a couple large water changes a week apart. After the first large water change you will run cuprasorb and activated carbon. After the second large water change you will replace the cuprasorb and carbon. You will be running cuprasorb for a while. I would say six months. Afte three weeks I would send an ATI water test in. If copper is in range you can test corals, snails, hermits and shrimp. My tank is living prof. I treated with copper years ago, and three years ago had an issue with a rusty magnet and a bad ro membrane. My Hanna copper tester showed .14 copper. Cuprasorb saved my sps. By large water change I mean 80%.

Wanted to thank you for the advice. My tank has been doing very well. Have added snails, crabs and coral with no problems. I continue to run cuprisorb and change it regularly. Have had no readings of copper in my tank since the two 80% water changes. If you have any more advice or pointers let me know.

 

[adittam]

Wanted to thank you for the advice. My tank has been doing very well. Have added snails, crabs and coral with no problems. I continue to run cuprisorb and change it regularly. Have had no readings of copper in my tank since the two 80% water changes. If you have any more advice or pointers let me know.

What fish do you currently have in the tank?

I'm not an expert by any means, but from everything I’ve learned and read so far, I agree with the others that there are zero species of tangs that will be appropriate for a 36 gallon tank, especially if it’s a corner tank. They simply need a lot more swimming room than that and will be perpetually stressed and aggressive if put in a tank that size.

It’s not gospel, but a good resource to learn approximate tank size requirements for fish is liveaquaria.com. If you browse their marine fish, you can see the minimum tank size required to keep each species healthy. They also have other handy information on there such as typical level of aggressiveness, and difficulty of caring for each species.

Good luck, and keep asking questions!