low alk with new tester

[anthonygf]

I just recieved my Hanna alk tester, and it's saying 6.2. My salifert, reads at 8...I performed the test with the Hanna Checker twice, and it reads the same each time. Ca is high also at 550, and Monday I performed a 30 gallon water change, on my 120. I went a bit overboard on that one...but typically I only do 15. so I guess I have to dose alk? I have no clue about this, as usually I run high on alk, and now I am so low. I dont have a sump, no doser, it's all by hand. What does anyone recommend? I am still searching through the threads...
Thank You


or...am I reading this wrong?

You are not reading this wrong. I just received my ICP test 2 weeks ago and my alk was 9.3 when I get 8.2 on my hanna consistently for weeks, I tested with Salifert that I used before I got Hanna and Salifert reading was 9.3, so I am going to go with Salifert. I bought a calibration test kit for Hanna and is within specs. Hanna calcium reading was 430 and ICP 630, Salifert calcium was higher than 500, who is wrong ATI or Hanna? Salifert magnesium 1380, ICP 1252, Red Sea Mag test was close to 1200, no go for Salifert Magnesium. Would you trust ICP tests or your own testing??? I got another ICP test by ICP-Analysis.com and get very close to the same readings as ATI.

Salifert for Alkalinity
Salifert for Calcium
Red Sea for Magnesium

This is what I will go with and slowly adjust params and check with ICP in a month.

 

[saltyfins]

You are not reading this wrong. I just received my ICP test 2 weeks ago and my alk was 9.3 when I get 8.2 on my hanna consistently for weeks, I tested with Salifert that I used before I got Hanna and Salifert reading was 9.3, so I am going to go with Salifert. I bought a calibration test kit for Hanna and is within specs. Hanna calcium reading was 430 and ICP 630, Salifert calcium was higher than 500, who is wrong ATI or Hanna? Salifert magnesium 1380, ICP 1252, Red Sea Mag test was close to 1200, no go for Salifert Magnesium. Would you trust ICP tests or your own testing??? I got another ICP test by ICP-Analysis.com and get very close to the same readings as ATI.

Salifert for Alkalinity
Salifert for Calcium
Red Sea for Magnesium

This is what I will go with and slowly adjust params and check with ICP in a month.

wow thats crazy! not sure, I really thought Hanna would be best for me, as the colors are hard to see, and the titration is hard for me to get my head around. the last thing I want to do, is screw something up, and crash my system.

 

[anthonygf]

Using multiple tests is a sure fire way to screw up your tank. Pick one and stick with it. Consistency is far more important than any individual number.

I think what I know now is get a test kit that reads close to what an ICP test readings

wow thats crazy! not sure, I really thought Hanna would be best for me, as the colors are hard to see, and the titration is hard for me to get my head around. the last thing I want to do, is screw something up, and crash my system.

Yes it is crazy, when I first gor the Hanna's I compared them with other test kits and was very close at that time. I also bought new bottles, calibration testers and still calibrated within specs. Hanna says when the testers are out of calibration they need to be replaced. And I also changed batteries. I had them for 3-4 years.

I am sorry but I give up on Hanna. I will still use their Phosphorus and Phosphate testers though.

 

[saltyfins]

last question...I hope. How do I try to maintain this? meaning...I'll likely have to start dosing if I notice it falling. I will check daily, and do I still keep using baking soda?

 

[arking_mark]

last question...I hope. How do I try to maintain this? meaning...I'll likely have to start dosing if I notice it falling. I will check daily, and do I still keep using baking soda?

Please note that for all practical purposes Alk and Ca are consumed at the same rate. Once in a blue moon, adjustments should be made.

Once you have you Alk/Ca balanced to your liking, you need to do balanced dosing.

If you want to keep it simple, All-for-reef is a single balanced dosing method.

 

[saltyfins]

Please note that for all practical purposes Alk and Ca are consumed at the same rate. Once in a blue moon, adjustments should be made.

Once you have you Alk/Ca balanced to your liking, you need to do balanced dosing.

If you want to keep it simple, All-for-reef is a single balanced dosing method.

oh alright. I am at BRS now, looking into a doser. was much more simple doing it with only softies...but I am hoping that getting my parameters right, I'll see better growth. Have quite a bit now...but things like my monte's are slowwwww
my purple and green stylo's are going bananas though, and so is the one I dropped last month on the floor! weirdly enough...

 

[nereefpat]

There's a couple posts about comparing your benchtop Alkalinity test to an ICP test. Be careful about that. ICP is not a method that can measure alkalinity.

If an ICP company is giving you a result for alk, then they are likely doing a separate test on your sample. And the sample has sometimes been shipped around the round, taking at least several days, at room temperature.

 

[anthonygf]

last question...I hope. How do I try to maintain this? meaning...I'll likely have to start dosing if I notice it falling. I will check daily, and do I still keep using baking soda?

I use Brightwell Aquatics Alkalin8.3-P KH buffer powder. Was dosing 1/8 tsp 4 times a day to maintain what I thought was 8.2 in my 75. Never had to dose for calcium because I was using Sea-Labs No. 28 Automatic Replenisher for 5 years.

 

[anthonygf]

There's a couple posts about comparing your benchtop Alkalinity test to an ICP test. Be careful about that. ICP is not a method that can measure alkalinity.

If an ICP company is giving you a result for alk, then they are likely doing a separate test on your sample. And the sample has sometimes been shipped around the round, taking at least several days, at room temperature.

That is something to think about. What about when ICP Alkalinity is 9.3 and I get 8.2 with Hanna and 9.3 with Salifert? I think I would go with a test kit that matches ICP.

 

[ApoIsland]

Thank You all so much! I really appreciate it. I will probably need to start thinking about a dosing system...as I have been doing this quite a while...15 yrs, but only really had softies. Now that I am growing out a bit harder corals, I see that this is going to need to happen sooner, rather than later.

Unless you are trying to maximize growth speed or trying to keep acros the alk level doesn't really matter that much. Neither do changes in it. My mixed reef has been going for 10 years with rarely any dosing. Of course I don't keep difficult corals and enjoy the slower growth rates with low alk After a while the constant pruning of corals becomes a bit of a chore.

The few times I have had the water tested alk is low 4s and high 3s if it's been 5 or 6 weeks between water changes. I usually change about 40-50% of the water with a mix of I/0 regular and I/O RC so the incoming alk is about 11-12. I have never tested after a water change but theoretically the alk level should immediately shoot back up to somewhere between 6-8.

Pic of my 120g mixed reef for reference with 10 years of primarily low alk levels and extreme changes once a month.

 

[anthonygf]

Please note that for all practical purposes Alk and Ca are consumed at the same rate. Once in a blue moon, adjustments should be made.

Once you have you Alk/Ca balanced to your liking, you need to do balanced dosing.

If you want to keep it simple, All-for-reef is a single balanced dosing method.

I never had to dose for calcium and magnesium when I was using Sea-Lab No. 28. I just stopped using it because my cal and aluminum climbing steadily for the last 8 months. I am doing several small water changes a week to try and lower cal and aluminum. Even trace elements are out of whack, some are high and some are low.

 

[anthonygf]

oh alright. I am at BRS now, looking into a doser. was much more simple doing it with only softies...but I am hoping that getting my parameters right, I'll see better growth. Have quite a bit now...but things like my monte's are slowwwww
my purple and green stylo's are going bananas though, and so is the one I dropped last month on the floor! weirdly enough...

What size tank do you have?
Never mind, i see it now.

 

[anthonygf]

Using multiple tests is a sure fire way to screw up your tank. Pick one and stick with it. Consistency is far more important than any individual number.

I think what I know now is get a test kit that reads close to what an ICP test readings are. I have been consistent with my testing for several years, until my ICP testing came back way off of my test kits. Went back to the different brands I started with to compare readings, so I will be using the ones that are in sync with ICP and slowly adjust params. Cal and alk too high, mag too low.

 

[anthonygf]

What size tank do you have?

Never mind, I see it now.

 

[saltyfins]

Never mind, I see it now.

yeah, it's a 125

 

[nereefpat]

That is something to think about. What about when ICP Alkalinity is 9.3 and I get 8.2 with Hanna and 9.3 with Salifert? I think I would go with a test kit that matches ICP.

If my ICP results came back with any value for alk, I would ignore it.

 

[saltyfins]

If my ICP results came back with any value for alk, I would ignore it.

can you explain why?

 

[nereefpat]

can you explain why?

Yes.

There's a couple posts about comparing your benchtop Alkalinity test to an ICP test. Be careful about that. ICP is not a method that can measure alkalinity.

If an ICP company is giving you a result for alk, then they are likely doing a separate test on your sample. And the sample has sometimes been shipped around the round, taking at least several days, at room temperature.

ICP takes your water sample and decomposes it into individual elements, and then detects how much of each element is present. For example, your carbonate is broken down into carbon and oxygen. ICP can't tell molecules apart.

ICP doesn't (can't) measure alkalinity. To use a bad analogy, it's like trying to weigh yourself with a stopwatch. It's not the right instrument.

 

[saltyfins]

Yes.



ICP takes your water sample and decomposes it into individual elements, and then detects how much of each element is present. For example, your carbonate is broken down into carbon and oxygen. ICP can't tell molecules apart.

ICP doesn't (can't) measure alkalinity. To use a bad analogy, it's like trying to weigh yourself with a stopwatch. It's not the right instrument.

sorry. that was funny.... but I understand. so that's an element you would ignore? are there any others?

 

[saltyfins]

Unless you are trying to maximize growth speed or trying to keep acros the alk level doesn't really matter that much. Neither do changes in it. My mixed reef has been going for 10 years with rarely any dosing. Of course I don't keep difficult corals and enjoy the slower growth rates with low alk After a while the constant pruning of corals becomes a bit of a chore.

The few times I have had the water tested alk is low 4s and high 3s if it's been 5 or 6 weeks between water changes. I usually change about 40-50% of the water with a mix of I/0 regular and I/O RC so the incoming alk is about 11-12. I have never tested after a water change but theoretically the alk level should immediately shoot back up to somewhere between 6-8.

Pic of my 120g mixed reef for reference with 10 years of primarily low alk levels and extreme changes once a month.

wow! that's beautiful!! maybe one day!!