Lowering levels of 0

rayn · Jan 10, 2017

I understand that algae consumes either nitrate or phosphate or both to grow. Add that with the amount of light and we have the perfect breeding ground for it.

But upon testing my tank I have per salifert...nitrate of 0. Per Hanna checker...phosphate of 0.00.

I still have a small start of HA starting. How do I go about lowering the levels if there isn't anything to detect?

twilliard · Jan 10, 2017

Hey bud! Well No3 and Po4 are not the only thing needed for photosynthesis and cell reproduction. That is why we see algae growing in tanks with undetectable amounts.
Once the algae starts, even to a point where we can't see it, photosynthesis is taking place.

rayn · Jan 10, 2017

So what's the answer?

I finally got a cuc in there today. What a hassle getting one has been. But they are all "acclimating" at the bottom after a hour acclimation.

twilliard · Jan 10, 2017

http://www.peoi.org/Courses/Coursesen/bot/bot15.html
The answer is photosynthesis.
Too many aquarists blame No3 and Po4 when in fact there is more to the story.

saltyfilmfolks · Jan 10, 2017

rayn said:
So what's the answer?

TOOTHBRUSH!
or 42, I forget.

rayn · Jan 10, 2017

Dang it, you got all smart on me. lol

saltyfilmfolks · Jan 10, 2017

rayn said:
Dang it, you got all smart on me. lol

I didnt.

twilliard · Jan 10, 2017

H2O2 at all times. Be warned that scrubbing may spread cells that can reproduce.

rayn · Jan 10, 2017

saltyfilmfolks said:
I didnt.

No, the toothbrush answer I can wrap my mind around!

saltyfilmfolks · Jan 10, 2017

rayn said:
No, the toothbrush answer I can wrap my mind around!

Im here for ya man!

rayn · Jan 10, 2017

twilliard said:
H2O2 at all times. Be warned that scrubbing may spread cells that can reproduce.

So one tank I started years ago and has since been tore down, I started vodka dosing once the cycle was finished. Only tank I never had HA in.

H2O2 is the key now? I've read some on it, I need to do more research on it I suppose.

H2O2 is different then carbon dosing or just a different version?

What about any macro algae that may be there that is beneficial, would it hurt it as well?

twilliard · Jan 10, 2017

Take the rock out, pull or scrub that algae off then pour H2O2 over the area (hydrogen peroxide)
I am working on tank dosing trying to find the connection between algae reduction and ORP as this is the only link I can find.
This does not harm our macro algaes from my assumption of cell density. Again another missing link but I can only do one thing at a time.

rayn · Jan 10, 2017

I'll work that way. Thanks!

saltyfilmfolks · Jan 10, 2017

twilliard said:
Be warned that scrubbing may spread cells that can reproduce.

curiously, I've never really had a problem with it. even in non sumped.

rayn · Jan 10, 2017

I even had high hopes for this tank. It's a small one, only a 20 long. But hob filter and skimmer, both overrated for the tank. Freshly cycled rock that had been acid washed. All I had in there was a pair of false percs and only fed what they would eat. Water change of 5 gallon weekly and the occasional 10 gallon change.

If you don't battle it you're lucky!

saltyfilmfolks · Jan 10, 2017

rayn said:
If you don't battle it you're lucky!

You might try some macros in the sump. there is def something to competition.

rayn · Jan 11, 2017

This is sumpless, though I have thought of adding a small sump to it. There are two types of macro in the tank though.
Calupera and liagora I believe it's called.

saltyfilmfolks · Jan 11, 2017

rayn said:
This is sumpless, though I have thought of adding a small sump to it. There are two types of macro in the tank though.
Calupera and liagora I believe it's called.

youll get there. The first par it the hardest. I think thats why so many give up. they don't believe it gets better.
And the dont have a tooth brush or peroxide after droppin $4k on a tank.

rayn · Jan 11, 2017

It gets better! I've had better. I see better.

I just want better NOW! haha

Snails seem to be waking up and moving about, so they should help as well. I will scrub the rock and try the H2O2.

brandon429 · Jan 12, 2017

Have you ever noticed that all algae turf scrubber threads which number in the literal thousands are collections of wads of green balled up algae that were voraciously scraped off the screen... a harvesting is celebrated, the regrowth. its an action sequence or it doesn't work

ATS setups depend on export in the way cotton farmers have to move white out of their fields as the endpoint... in one school of thought any time a tiny set of algae tufts are viewed in a challenge tank or the water tested they have scrubbed all the waste without re harvest work somehow/the reason the nutrients in a constant-production system are zero is because a set of partial growths unremoved have commanded them all, without constant removal to mirror the input, claims one school of thought.

the ATS crew school of thought should only require a few rocks infested with algae in the display tank to attain the 0 measures, but true zero requires being a plant pump.

an active ATS screen is a volleyball's worth of coil every two weeks, then they get the true zero sustain

The nutrient profiles wont change much in a tank removing or allowing some pretty decent stands of algae, its the sinks like live rock pores, sandbed stores, that need to be free of measurable waste (not clouding when disturbed) so the water can have clean food passed through it (then exported) like it does in the ocean...so that animals eat well but storage of waste is low. To me, that's the true measure of nutrients in the tank (waste stores we could find as whole matter) not how the algae growth registers on a test kit of dissolved matter.

I would fix the tank with a proven spot kill action, and make sure the sandbed isn't storing detritus and if it is, cleaning that up too