Lurking danger 75g Dragon Lair

[vlangel]

I am a little nervous about (salinity fluctuations) with pouring the salt on the sandbed algae so I have not tried it yet. I got a clarification as how much tank water to remove and how much salt. 16 ounces of tank water removed to 4.2 tsp of IO, then replace 16 ounces of fresh water. My tank is big enough that even a gallon of water doesnt swing the salinity greatly. Tomorrow I may try a small area and see what happens. I need to make sure that none of my nassarius snails are nearby where I try this.

If this does not work, I am going to try coral snow and microbacter 7 and if that doesn't work I have some chemiclean but I would only resort to that if the coral were being smothered and nothing like that is happening now

 

[TheWB]

I am a little nervous about (salinity fluctuations) with pouring the salt on the sandbed algae so I have not tried it yet. I got a clarification as how much tank water to remove and how much salt. 16 ounces of tank water removed to 4.2 tsp of IO, then replace 16 ounces of fresh water. My tank is big enough that even a gallon of water doesnt swing the salinity greatly. Tomorrow I may try a small area and see what happens. I need to make sure that none of my nassarius snails are nearby where I try this.

If this does not work, I am going to try coral snow and microbacter 7 and if that doesn't work I have some chemiclean but I would only resort to that if the coral were being smothered and nothing like that is happening now

Have you considered using some PNS Deep Cycle to inoculate your sandbed? I used it to clear up a persistent brown dusty looking growth on my sand that was most likely a strain of Dino’s. It might also work for your situation. I scooped up a cup of sand, poured out most of the water in the cup, soaked the sand with the PNS for 15 minutes and then put the sand back where I took it from. It took about a week but my sand cleared up. Could be worth a shot if you don’t want to use chemiclean. Can always use it later if needed.

 

[carol3]

Have you considered using some PNS Deep Cycle to inoculate your sandbed? I used it to clear up a persistent brown dusty looking growth on my sand that was most likely a strain of Dino’s. It might also work for your situation. I scooped up a cup of sand, poured out most of the water in the cup, soaked the sand with the PNS for 15 minutes and then put the sand back where I took it from. It took about a week but my sand cleared up. Could be worth a shot if you don’t want to use chemiclean. Can always use it later if needed.

This sounds interesting, fun experiment for my tank too.

 

[vlangel]

Have you considered using some PNS Deep Cycle to inoculate your sandbed? I used it to clear up a persistent brown dusty looking growth on my sand that was most likely a strain of Dino’s. It might also work for your situation. I scooped up a cup of sand, poured out most of the water in the cup, soaked the sand with the PNS for 15 minutes and then put the sand back where I took it from. It took about a week but my sand cleared up. Could be worth a shot if you don’t want to use chemiclean. Can always use it later if needed.

Thanks, I had not considered that. I have never used PNS Deep Cycle but I like the sounds of that better than using the chemiclean. Did you just soak the 1 cup of sand or did you do that same process throughout the tank? Or did you do 1 cup of sand each day for a week?

 

[vlangel]

Have you considered using some PNS Deep Cycle to inoculate your sandbed? I used it to clear up a persistent brown dusty looking growth on my sand that was most likely a strain of Dino’s. It might also work for your situation. I scooped up a cup of sand, poured out most of the water in the cup, soaked the sand with the PNS for 15 minutes and then put the sand back where I took it from. It took about a week but my sand cleared up. Could be worth a shot if you don’t want to use chemiclean. Can always use it later if needed.

WB, you gave me an idea when I read your post. I am guessing that whatever is in PNS Deep Cycle its designed to outcompete whatever was in your sandbed. Since it might be a week or more before I could get PNS but I have a Petco 5 minutes away that carries CaribSea live argonite sand I decided to try it in a similar way. First I siphoned out during the peak of my light cycle all the cyano/dino into a bucket. I did not worry about pulling out some sand because I was replacing it with the live sand in hopes of inoculating my sandbed with revitalized biolife. I stirred the CaribSea live sand into my sand. Right now things look promising but the lights are going down so tomorrow will tell the tale. Thank you @TheWB!

 

[TheWB]

Thanks, I had not considered that. I have never used PNS Deep Cycle but I like the sounds of that better than using the chemiclean. Did you just soak the 1 cup of sand or did you do that same process throughout the tank? Or did you do 1 cup of sand each day for a week?

I did two locations in my sanded that looked bad. Just once. I documented in my thread so there are pictures but I'd have to go back and find them, not sure how long ago that was. I also added some of the bacteria to the water column and let it stir around with the return pump off for about an hour a few days later.

 

[TheWB]

WB, you gave me an idea when I read your post. I am guessing that whatever is in PNS Deep Cycle its designed to outcompete whatever was in your sandbed. Since it might be a week or more before I could get PNS but I have a Petco 5 minutes away that carries CaribSea live argonite sand I decided to try it in a similar way. First I siphoned out during the peak of my light cycle all the cyano/dino into a bucket. I did not worry about pulling out some sand because I was replacing it with the live sand in hopes of inoculating my sandbed with revitalized biolife. I stirred the CaribSea live sand into my sand. Right now things look promising but the lights are going down so tomorrow will tell the tale. Thank you @TheWB!

Cool. I will be interested to see how that works. The question will be just how alive is CaribSea live sand? I think you would probably still benefit from some of the PNS.

 

[vlangel]

I did two locations in my sanded that looked bad. Just once. I documented in my thread so there are pictures but I'd have to go back and find them, not sure how long ago that was. I also added some of the bacteria to the water column and let it stir around with the return pump off for about an hour a few days later.

Cool. I will be interested to see how that works. The question will be just how alive is CaribSea live sand? I think you would probably still benefit from some of the PNS.

I may check out your thread to see the pics, and it would be fun to see your tank anyway.
Yes, the live sand is suspect and may just be snake oil. I did see Ryan from BRS promoting it but then they probably sell it. Still I have found BRS to be pretty accurate about the products they commentate on. I will let you know how it goes.
And PNS is in my Amazon cart.

 

[vlangel]

The tank looked improved this morning but there were still spots of 'uglies' especially around the base of rock so I siphoned out more sand and uglies and added more live sand. My gut feel is that this alone isn't going to get rid of it all however so I ordered the calcium carbonate to make my own coral snow. I also ordered PNS deep cycle since I am out of seachem stability anyway. If when I apply both of these and give the tank a couple weeks for them to do their thing, if the cyano/dinos are not greatly diminished then I will use the chemiclean.

Of course while I am doing this I am continuing to dose ESV B-ionic nitrate to get my NO3 and PO4 more in line with where they should be as that no doubt is part of the root problem. I am wondering about ordering pods for a few months too as that certainly couldn't hurt. Finally I am not using the grow light for the mangrove, it is only getting light from the ReefBreeder Photon which is a bit whiter than a lot of reef tanks. So this is the plan folks and we will see where it takes us!

 

[vlangel]

Here is what the sandbed looks like this evening:

 

[vlangel]

Today is tank maintenance day since tomorrow will be getting ready for Easter weekend. I tested NO3 - 20ppm and PO4 - .5ppm. That is much more like how my tanks run. Now I need to watch the tank and see if the nitrates drop if I stop dosing.

The uglies whatever they are are much diminished and are acceptable. I will probably still dose PNS Deep Cycle and I have been dosing Seachem Stability. I may hold off on the coral snow for a few weeks.

The coral never seemed affected by the uglies or any of my treatments so I am pleased about that. My coral show is coming up in less than 2 weeks but I think the tank is fine to put new coral in.

 

[vlangel]

I am very excited because today both the probiotic PNS deep cycle and the calcium carbonate that I plan to use to make coral snow arrived. I used the PNS right away because its so easy to apply. I soaked 2 small jelly jars of my dirtiest sand in it for 15 minute. Then I pulled out the PNS from the jelly jar with a small syringe and innoculated places of the sandbed that were not very accessible. It took about 15 minutes. I listened to this video while I was doing this. It's fascinating.

 

[TheWB]

I am very excited because today both the probiotic PNS deep cycle and the calcium carbonate that I plan to use to make coral snow arrived. I used the PNS right away because its so easy to apply. I soaked 2 small jelly jars of my dirtiest sand in it for 15 minute. Then I pulled out the PNS from the jelly jar with a small syringe and innoculated places of the sandbed that were not very accessible. It took about 15 minutes. I listened to this video while I was doing this. It's fascinating.

Cool. I hope you get the same results that I got with the PNS. Every tank is different but I'd like to think that it's repeatable.

 

[vlangel]

I added coral snow this evening after I siphoned the worst looking areas. I am expecting that this may go on for a bit so I am not expecting instant results. It's my belief that this is cyano and not dinos. I have had cyano in the past and its never been harmful to fish or coral so I don't have to be nervous. In the past I just siphoned it out or stirred the sand every couple days and eventually it left. One time I dosed silica which I could try again. But right now I will just stay the course of dosing bacteria (seachem stability and PNS alternate days), siphoning the sandbed and coral snow a couple times. I have so much open sandbed that it looks worse than my prior tanks that had much less open sandbed, LOL. Maybe my plan should be to fill the sand with coral on top of it!

 

[vlangel]

Cool. I hope you get the same results that I got with the PNS. Every tank is different but I'd like to think that it's repeatable.

I hope so too! It's really not that terrible and I am realizing that because I have a much bigger sandbed with much of it open that I probably overly concerned and should just chill and let it slowly work itself out. I do think that the PNS is an excellent way to let it move to a more stable condition.

 

[vlangel]

I have been focusing on my tank on both Fridays and Mondays. A while ago I realized that I needed to dose more than once a week when it comes to macroalgae because they use up iron very quickly. Also I am guessing that my coral need more AFR since I am not doing water changes. Today I cleaned the pre-filter to my canister which was really dirty and siphoned the surface of the sandbed. I replaced the water back into the tank after siphoning out the dirty sand. Then I added coral snow. Lastly I added phosphate sponge to lower PO4. Both fish and coral look very good. Even the goni is looking better.

 

[vlangel]

I decided to try and keep my tank more stable to deal with the sandbed uglies. That led me to buy a PH and alkalinity kit as those are not things that I have tested for years. I can hear the gasps of horror! And rightly so as my tank was really low in both! I am amazed that my coral could still look as good as they did considering. So I set about to slowly raise both. The Alkalinity has responded pretty well but PH has not. My guess is that without a skimmer, having macroalgae respiration, and using glass tops this is not going to be easily fixed. I will do a few successive bigger water changes to see if that helps.

Its was kind of bad timing, (since my tank isn't at its best) but our local reef club hosted a coral show. Still I figured I could buy sturdy coral. I came home with quite a few nice frags and a maxima clam! I chose mostly zoas, but also got a monti, a pocci, a pulsing xenia and a variegated Kenya tree. My tank is not full but if these frags grow its going to look like a tank that is not brand new. I will take pics when everything settles in.

 

[vlangel]

Here are pics. The kenya tree is still being tempermental as are some of the zoa polyps. Dont look at the ugly sand!

 

[vlangel]

As things turned out, the alkalinity test kit I bought was inaccurate. So I was dosing AFR when the alk was ok. Luckily a friend stopped by with his test kits and caught the problem before I dosed my tank into oblivion! Alk was about 11 and calcium 600 and magnesium was 1500. Surprisingly everything still looked good so I decided that water changes with regular IO was the safest way to bring everything down. I did a series of water changes over about 4 days and now I think I am where I want to be. Everything still looks good so I guess they weathered all the fluctuations pretty well. I bought a new alkalinity test at my lfs and will keep my alk between 7 and 8. The sandbed is still brown but compared to almost crashing the system, I can live with it.

 

[vlangel]

So far my PO4 is still pretty high. I am contemplating running chemipure in the canister along with the phosGuard in the intank filter. I am not doing any water changes but the NO3 may have come down a little although I think they are still at least 10. The alkalinity is holding steady at 8 at the moment.

Some good news is that in the last 2 days I believe the nasties have diminished. I am not sure what is the main reason because along with dosing bacteria in a bottle, I plugged in the UV sterilizer which in turn heated the water up to 82°. It could be that the UV sterilization and the warmer water are both having a impact. However, I had to unplug the UV yesterday as I definitely don't want the tank to get any warmer than 82°. I will continue to use the UV as the temperature allows. The coral continue to look pretty good.

Well I discovered why my PO4 hasn't come down. I placed my hand in front of the intank filter output and almost no flow was coming out! So I took it apart and found out that the drawstring from the filter bag containing the PhosGuard had gotten sucked into the impeller! So I fixed that and now flow is going through the intank filter so hopefully now the phosphates will come down.