Maintaining higher ALK for soft corals w/ no calcium dosing

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I could see this on a 150 covered in coraline and a few LPS and a clam or something but a 5 in this case... I just don't know man.

Him wanting to raise dkh up to 11 from an 8 salt mix just to use a gizmo he has seems like we are just giving him the ol "do what ya want and see what happens" thing.

I just see this as a weird 5 gallon box here, not a mature 75 gallon that is pulling down dkh by a point or three between water changes. I'm out. I just think it wise to find an 11dkh salt mix and slowly raise it that way, then ride out the time between water changes and dose as a maintenance, not as trying to reach a target.

I'm not sure why the tank volume impacts how fast alk might decline. What matters most is what is in it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I agree that dosing would be overly complicated and expensive for a 5 gallon softie tank. I think the same goal can be achieved by switching to coral pro salt, I think it mixes at about 11 alk, which would be a cheaper and easier solution.

Cheaper? Dosing is always FAR, far cheaper than a water change to maintain alkalinity and calcium.

If you doubt it, we can easily prove it, but think of it this way:

1. Dosing adds a little alk and calcium.

2. A water change adds that same alk and calcium and a whole lot more alk and calcium, and a whole lot more of other ingredients that have nothing to do with alk and calcium.

How could #2 ever be cheaper?

 

[GobyGuy]

Thank you guys for all the info

Cheaper? Nonsense,. Dosing is always FAR, far cheaper than a water change to maintain alkalinity and calcium.

If you doubt it, we can easily prove it, but think of it this way:

1. Dosing adds a little alk and calcium.

2. A water change adds that same alk and calcium and a whole lot more alk and calcium, and a whole lot more of other incredients that have nothing to do with alk and calcium.

How could #2 ever be cheaper?

what sold me on picking up and getting into dosing was actually the Red Sea calculator saying each dosing thing would be “$1 or less” per month to dose

I guess my efficacy questions revolves around wether kalk/allforreef/2part all had different niches of problem fixing or came down to personal preference -

I think I’m going to build more of a water profile before adding anything more but tonight I switched out my chemi pure blue for chemi pure elite smaller dose of 2oz in the HOB & did a 30% water change

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Thank you guys for all the info

what sold me on picking up and getting into dosing was actually the Red Sea calculator saying each dosing thing would be “$1 or less” per month to dose

I guess my efficacy questions revolves around wether kalk/allforreef/2part all had different niches of problem fixing or came down to personal preference -

I think I’m going to build more of a water profile before adding anything more but tonight I switched out my chemi pure blue for chemi pure elite smaller dose of 2oz in the HOB & did a 30% water change

Sounds like a good plan
It's easy to feel like you should be adding/using/dosing everything on the market, but getting to know your tank and then responding with small changes when needed is the tried and true philosophy, so to speak.

Would love to see pictures of your tank!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thank you guys for all the info

what sold me on picking up and getting into dosing was actually the Red Sea calculator saying each dosing thing would be “$1 or less” per month to dose

I guess my efficacy questions revolves around wether kalk/allforreef/2part all had different niches of problem fixing or came down to personal preference -

I think I’m going to build more of a water profile before adding anything more but tonight I switched out my chemi pure blue for chemi pure elite smaller dose of 2oz in the HOB & did a 30% water change

All methods have pros and cons, including complexity, ongoing and upfront costs, ph effects, etc.

I compare many of them here:

The Many Methods for Supplementing Calcium and Alkalinity - REEFEDITION

There is no aspect of reef aquarium chemistry more important than calcium and alkalinity. Many of my previous articles have described various aspects of these systems in detail. In reading those articles, aquarists will note one pervasive theme: that maintaining appropriate levels of each are...

www.reefedition.com

 

[Mr. Roboto]

Cheaper? Dosing is always FAR, far cheaper than a water change to maintain alkalinity and calcium.

If you doubt it, we can easily prove it, but think of it this way:

1. Dosing adds a little alk and calcium.

2. A water change adds that same alk and calcium and a whole lot more alk and calcium, and a whole lot more of other ingredients that have nothing to do with alk and calcium.

How could #2 ever be cheaper?

While you are right on the dosing, if you use your mix with household stuff and do not buy it from BRS or somewhere else, yes, it would be cheaper. However, in this case I dont think it would be easier to try and raise alk from 8 to 11 dosing and maintain it there, the math and the constant testing would probably drive this dude out of the hobby before he even got in it good.

Not everyone is gizmo happy and water chemistry ready. I love it, most want to make it as simple as possible and I think thats where we should all start.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

While you are right on the dosing, if you use your mix with household stuff and do not buy it from BRS or somewhere else, yes, it would be cheaper. However, in this case I dont think it would be easier to try and raise alk from 8 to 11 dosing and maintain it there, the math and the constant testing would probably drive this dude out of the hobby before he even got in it good.

Not everyone is gizmo happy and water chemistry ready. I love it, most want to make it as simple as possible and I think thats where we should all start.

When I have time, I will show the cost comparison. You pick what salt you want to use and what two part alk supplement from the same vendor of your choice, and I’ll show the cost comparison.

 

[Mr. Roboto]

When I have time, I will show the cost comparison. You pick what salt you want to use and what two part alk supplement from the same vendor if your choice, and I’ll show the cost comparison.

I agreed with you for the most part. I am not here to argue anything. I feel like we are going back and forth at this point when I have agreed more times than not here. But simply going from IO regular at 8dkh for 17 dollars a 55 bag to IORC at 11dkh for 19 dollars a bag on a 5 gallon tank, we would be comparing single dollars, not hundreds over a year. My stance on this is he needs to pick a higher alk salt and start there. If you want to keep pushing this dosing thing that is fine. More people listen to you than I am sure will listen to me but I think you are leading this guy down the wrong path with trying to dose up instead of dose for maintenance.

 

[gbroadbridge]

I'm branching into the world of dosing, and looking into dosing from around an 8DKH to an 11 DKH in my 5g soft coral nano tank, however my calcium is assumedly at the expected value as my salt brand range is around 400 and I have been maintaining 60 to 80% water changes weekly. I am hoping to begin dosing ALK to increase growth, however I am also thinking that 2 part isnt needed as the calcium in my demand is extremely low - (6 soft coral frags, 2 clowns (yes im upgrading tank size soon), 2 tiger pistols their goby pimp.. lol).

I am "dosing" reef energy AB+, ph at 8, alk at 8.5, no other tests are recent

the goal is to extend time between water changes and maintain an alk around 11

also, when RedSea foundation B kh/alk says 1ml raises 25 gal by .1dkh, should I then accept 1ml raising my tank by 5x as much since its 5x smaller, or try and measure .2 of a ml and dose that as a 1/5th dose?

May I ask why you would want to raise the Alk to 11?

IMO it wont make much difference to growth rate. I'd just keep the tank around 7.7 which is where natural seawater sits.

With Alk at 11, you will need to very carefully manage nutrients, a slight error could cause a lot of grief.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I agreed with you for the most part. I am not here to argue anything. I feel like we are going back and forth at this point when I have agreed more times than not here. But simply going from IO regular at 8dkh for 17 dollars a 55 bag to IORC at 11dkh for 19 dollars a bag on a 5 gallon tank, we would be comparing single dollars, not hundreds over a year. My stance on this is he needs to pick a higher alk salt and start there. If you want to keep pushing this dosing thing that is fine. More people listen to you than I am sure will listen to me but I think you are leading this guy down the wrong path with trying to dose up instead of dose for maintenance.

Sorry, but yes, I will push absolutely on a fact that I think is demonstrably incorrect. Cost is a simple fact that is right or wrong, and if it is used in a way to make a point that is not, IMO, correct, I will always correct it in this forum where I am charged with ensuring accuracy. Especially since you reiterated your point:

"While you are right on the dosing, if you use your mix with household stuff and do not buy it from BRS or somewhere else, yes, it would be cheaper."

and stated that my assertion was wrong, no, I will not let it go. It just serves to mislead people.

Easy of use and what is "best" is an opinion that I have not once argued in this thread.

 

[Mr. Roboto]

Again you are missing the point. Good day sir.

 

[GobyGuy]

May I ask why you would want to raise the Alk to 11?

IMO it wont make much difference to growth rate. I'd just keep the tank around 7.7 which is where natural seawater sits.

With Alk at 11, you will need to very carefully manage nutrients, a slight error could cause a lot of grief.

I’ve read a bit that it can increase coral growth

 

[GobyGuy]

When I have time, I will show the cost comparison. You pick what salt you want to use and what two part alk supplement from the same vendor of your choice, and I’ll show the cost comparison.

I have Red Sea alk / Kalk on hand , I’d love to try the DIY recipes if they hold up against bigger brand products - I think reef chemistry would give me something more productive to try & learn instead of reading R2R for as many hours a day as I am lol

 

[GobyGuy]

All methods have pros and cons, including complexity, ongoing and upfront costs, ph effects, etc.

I compare many of them here:

The Many Methods for Supplementing Calcium and Alkalinity - REEFEDITION

There is no aspect of reef aquarium chemistry more important than calcium and alkalinity. Many of my previous articles have described various aspects of these systems in detail. In reading those articles, aquarists will note one pervasive theme: that maintaining appropriate levels of each are...

www.reefedition.com

Thinking I’ll try Kalk next as a additive, and start reading about the math to effectively dose that - assuming phosphates are still an issue

My lfs has been using AquaVitro salt which has never fully mixed in the buckets I buy from them resulting in a powder siting at the bottom of the bucket no matter how long I let the heater/pump stay in - I think switching into home mixing salt is a good step to take as well

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Again you are missing the point. Good day sir.

I understand you think I misunderstood your point, but I did not.

Folks will always differ in opinions, but facts are facts.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thinking I’ll try Kalk next as a additive, and start reading about the math to effectively dose that - assuming phosphates are still an issue

My lfs has been using AquaVitro salt which has never fully mixed in the buckets I buy from them resulting in a powder siting at the bottom of the bucket no matter how long I let the heater/pump stay in - I think switching into home mixing salt is a good step to take as well

Kalkwasser (limewater in english) is a fine method that I used for 20 years, but it requires more effort than a two part or All for Reef since it requires slow dosing with a dripper or slow pump.

 

[Mr. Roboto]

I understand you think I misunderstood your point, but I did not.

Folks will always differ in opinions, but facts are facts.

Still missing the mark here buddy but it's okay.

 

[GobyGuy]

Kalkwasser (limewater in english) is a fine method that I used for 20 years, but it requires more effort than a two part or All for Reef since it requires slow dosing with a dripper or slow pump.

I’ve seen it toted as the #1 solution or something by BRS a while ago. Is the need for slow dosing something that can be achieved by both intermittent doses ( hourly) or more consistent drips (minutes) - did any of the other tested solutions have an affect on phosphates?

unrelated but do u also have any opinion on the accuracy of colorimeters? I’d think they’re more than fine but curious if your background can shed any light on the implications of dust/fingerprints affecting readings

 

[gbroadbridge]

I’ve seen it toted as the #1 solution or something by BRS a while ago. Is the need for slow dosing something that can be achieved by both intermittent doses ( hourly) or more consistent drips (minutes) - did any of the other tested solutions have an affect on phosphates?

unrelated but do u also have any opinion on the accuracy of colorimeters? I’d think they’re more than fine but curious if your background can shed any light on the implications of dust/fingerprints affecting readings

I wish people would stop taking what BRS say as gospel.

Thery're a business trying to sell stuff, and not always in the best interest of the hobbiest.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Still missing the mark here buddy but it's okay.

I’ll let you have the last word here, but I’ll start a different thread to show costs of dosing vs water changes.