Maintaining higher ALK for soft corals w/ no calcium dosing

[GobyGuy]

I'm branching into the world of dosing, and looking into dosing from around an 8DKH to an 11 DKH in my 5g soft coral nano tank, however my calcium is assumedly at the expected value as my salt brand range is around 400 and I have been maintaining 60 to 80% water changes weekly. I am hoping to begin dosing ALK to increase growth, however I am also thinking that 2 part isnt needed as the calcium in my demand is extremely low - (6 soft coral frags, 2 clowns (yes im upgrading tank size soon), 2 tiger pistols their goby pimp.. lol).

I am "dosing" reef energy AB+, ph at 8, alk at 8.5, no other tests are recent

the goal is to extend time between water changes and maintain an alk around 11

also, when RedSea foundation B kh/alk says 1ml raises 25 gal by .1dkh, should I then accept 1ml raising my tank by 5x as much since its 5x smaller, or try and measure .2 of a ml and dose that as a 1/5th dose?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If the alk declines, and is not because of rising nitrate, then you likely also need to add calcium unless the mix already has very high calcium.

 

[GobyGuy]

If the alk declines, and is not because of rising nitrate, then you likely also need to add calcium unless the mix already has very high calcium.

So its a direct relation, I was thinking that as I try and raise my alk 3.0 points I'll see a calcium rise, and then saw that anything above 500 elicits calc percipitiation - I havent noticed any substantial alk decline, in-fact from the last water test I got to this water test (there was a water change around the time of the first test) there was a negatable change in alk.

Would you reccomend not changing/dosing anything as its seemed to stable out around 8? I'm under the assumption that 11-11.5 will spark a change in growth rate

 

[GobyGuy]

If the alk declines, and is not because of rising nitrate, then you likely also need to add calcium unless the mix already has very high calcium.

assuming nitrates are not rising and both alk & calcium are needing to be dosed - Randy do you know the differences in efficacy between dosing kalk mix vs 2 part (DIY or store-bought)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

assuming nitrates are not rising and both alk & calcium are needing to be dosed - Randy do you know the differences in efficacy between dosing kalk mix vs 2 part (DIY or store-bought)

i know the potency difference, if that’s what you mean.

Boosting alk by 3 dKH by either method will boost calcium by about 21 ppm.

 

[Mr. Roboto]

I wouldnt dose anything on a nano tank. You should be doing enough water changes to maintain stable alk and calc rates. I would suggest finding a salt that mixes up to what you want and just changing salt. dosing on such a small scale is bound to have consequences.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I wouldnt dose anything on a nano tank. You should be doing enough water changes to maintain stable alk and calc rates. I would suggest finding a salt that mixes up to what you want and just changing salt. dosing on such a small scale is bound to have consequences.

What sort of consequences?

Dosing is a fine way to maintain alk and calcium. You can make dosing solutions more dilute if you are concerned about small volume measurement.

 

[Mr. Roboto]

What sort of consequences?

Dosing is a fine way to maintain alk and calcium. You can make dosing solutions more dilute if you are concerned about small volume measurement.

I am just saying that a 5 gallon tank with mostly softies like the OP says shouldnt be sucking Alk out of the tank that quick. It shouldnt be anything for him to keep it up anyway. From the sounds of it he has a salt mix that is mixing up at around 8 anyway and he wants to raise it. An easier way to do this (to me at least) would be to just simply slowly switch salts to something that mixes to the 11 that he wants. If he can raise it to a 11.5 by simply water changes over time, he should be able to go two weeks and it still not fall down to far.

I get you can dose but we usually dose because our tanks are pulling down from the number we start at, not to try and maintain something that we cant get from salt mixes.

As far as the complications, 5 gallons and a mess up in dosing alk, especially trying to raise it 3dkh on the regular.... I just dont like it. To each their own though.

 

[GobyGuy]

i just got a water profile started - as of today with a water change 7 days ago I’m testing at


Phos .25

Nitrates 0 (salifert, could be between 0-.5 or .05 whatever the bottom two test card readings are)

Calc - 240

pH ~ 8

alk 8.5

i know the potency difference, if that’s what you mean.

Boosting alk by 3 dKH by either method will boost calcium by about 21 ppm.

Do you have an opinion on one being “better” or does it come down to preference?

I wouldnt dose anything on a nano tank. You should be doing enough water changes to maintain stable alk and calc rates. I would suggest finding a salt that mixes up to what you want and just changing salt. dosing on such a small scale is bound to have consequences.

i think this is a valid idea, im more looking to learn about and maybe apply on a smaller scale before I set up a larger tank in the next couple of weeks… any reason to use this new doser I got with some other equip lol, thinking once I dose up to 11-12 the water changes could be smaller along with maintenance doses

LFS said that calc in a softies tank wasn’t too much of an issue but that was a surprisingly low number to me

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Not trying to be argumentative, but I do not understand why you think a softie tank needs to be dosed. Let alone one that has an Alk of 8...?
As mentioned above, if your salt mix/water changes keep Alk at 8 and everything is happy (softies don't build skeletons so don't really consume alk like stony corals can), why mess with your tank's stability by dosing?
IMO, preventing swings in Alk, Ca, and Mg are a lot more important than specific numbers... Especially in a tank that's not consuming those elements.

All this in addition to the fact that it's a 5 gallon tank, which has a lot less room for error when dosing anything...

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I'm under the assumption that 11-11.5 will spark a change in growth rate

For corals that build skeletons, maybe, but I don't believe that applies to soft coral at all.

@Randy Holmes-Farley , kindly correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The calcium is almost certainly not accurate at 240 ppm.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

i just got a water profile started - as of today with a water change 7 days ago I’m testing at


Phos .25

Nitrates 0 (salifert, could be between 0-.5 or .05 whatever the bottom two test card readings are)

I would be much more concerned with these two readings than with the other elements. How new is this tank? Softies generally need more nutrients, and the ratio of phos to nitrate that you posted may cause issues.
Regarding growth in this tank, I'd focus on bringing nitrates up so the corals don't starve.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

For corals that build skeletons, maybe, but I don't believe that applies to soft coral at all.

@Randy Holmes-Farley , kindly correct me if I'm wrong.

Some soft corals use calcium and alk to build internal structures called spicules.

other organisms use calcium and alk too, such as urchins, snails, clams, coralline algae.

I’ve seen soft coral tanks use 2 dKH per day.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

i just got a water profile started - as of today with a water change 7 days ago I’m testing at


Phos .25

Nitrates 0 (salifert, could be between 0-.5 or .05 whatever the bottom two test card readings are)

Calc - 240

pH ~ 8

alk 8.5



Do you have an opinion on one being “better” or does it come down to preference?


i think this is a valid idea, im more looking to learn about and maybe apply on a smaller scale before I set up a larger tank in the next couple of weeks… any reason to use this new doser I got with some other equip lol, thinking once I dose up to 11-12 the water changes could be smaller along with maintenance doses

LFS said that calc in a softies tank wasn’t too much of an issue but that was a surprisingly low number to me

Lots of methods are perfectly fine for calcium and alk. A two part or All for Reef is likely easiest in this setting.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Some soft corals use calcium and alk to build internal structures called spicules.

other organisms use calcium and alk too, such as urchins, snails, clams, coralline algae.

I’ve seen soft coral tanks use 2 dKH per day.

Thank you!

 

[Mr. Roboto]

Some soft corals use calcium and alk to build internal structures called spicules.

other organisms use calcium and alk too, such as urchins, snails, clams, coralline algae.

I’ve seen soft coral tanks use 2 dKH per day.

I could see this on a 150 covered in coraline and a few LPS and a clam or something but a 5 in this case... I just don't know man.

Him wanting to raise dkh up to 11 from an 8 salt mix just to use a gizmo he has seems like we are just giving him the ol "do what ya want and see what happens" thing.

I just see this as a weird 5 gallon box here, not a mature 75 gallon that is pulling down dkh by a point or three between water changes. I'm out. I just think it wise to find an 11dkh salt mix and slowly raise it that way, then ride out the time between water changes and dose as a maintenance, not as trying to reach a target.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

I agree that dosing would be overly complicated and expensive for a 5 gallon softie tank. I think the same goal can be achieved by switching to coral pro salt, I think it mixes at about 11 alk, which would be a cheaper and easier solution.

 

[GobyGuy]

Not trying to be argumentative, but I do not understand why you think a softie tank needs to be dosed. Let alone one that has an Alk of 8...?
As mentioned above, if your salt mix/water changes keep Alk at 8 and everything is happy (softies don't build skeletons so don't really consume alk like stony corals can), why mess with your tank's stability by dosing?
IMO, preventing swings in Alk, Ca, and Mg are a lot more important than specific numbers... Especially in a tank that's not consuming those elements.

All this in addition to the fact that it's a 5 gallon tank, which has a lot less room for error when dosing anything...

I guess it’s more of an idea that 11dkh would be better than 8, I do agree stability is important & chasing 11 is not really the desire I didn’t think it would be something more than a dose up to 11 and then it’s just there since there wasn’t a large decline week to week.

The calcium is almost certainly not accurate at 240 ppm.

from what I could tell, the lfs workers just do the same salifert testing I would do but for free - the first test apparently “turned blue instantly” I’m unfamiliar with calc tests but for her that meant to redo, at which point I was informed of the “really low like 240 low” so I’m hoping that there was an error present - a water change is due anyhow

I would be much more concerned with these two readings than with the other elements. How new is this tank? Softies generally need more nutrients, and the ratio of phos to nitrate that you posted may cause issues.
Regarding growth in this tank, I'd focus on bringing nitrates up so the corals don't starve.

12-14 months old - 6 softie frags getting 2ml of reef energy every day & 3 fish getting fed once a day I guess I will have to increase that feeding

I could see this on a 150 covered in coraline and a few LPS and a clam or something but a 5 in this case... I just don't know man.

Him wanting to raise dkh up to 11 from an 8 salt mix just to use a gizmo he has seems like we are just giving him the ol "do what ya want and see what happens" thing.

I just see this as a weird 5 gallon box here, not a mature 75 gallon that is pulling down dkh by a point or three between water changes. I'm out. I just think it wise to find an 11dkh salt mix and slowly raise it that way, then ride out the time between water changes and dose as a maintenance, not as trying to reach a target.

wouldn’t be doing much before it’s all moved to a 30 gallon where consumption would be higher - I’m pretty sure they could work for daily water changes/top offs however I haven’t gotten the tubing yet anyways lol - and saw it as a way to dip the toes in the relationships between each element- thank you for the salt change recommendation

 

[GobyGuy]

I agree that dosing would be overly complicated and expensive for a 5 gallon softie tank. I think the same goal can be achieved by switching to coral pro salt, I think it mixes at about 11 alk, which would be a cheaper and easier solution.

This was the salt I found looking at brands to switch to - seems to be the easiest way