Maintaining PO4 with dosing or Reefeoids?

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

How is adding organic matter a potential detriment?

Could be driving cyano, could be yellowing the water.

 

[Billyreef-ita]

Very interesting thread
Also my dilemma: do I manage N and P with additions by dosing pump or with increasing/reducing the quantity of food.
So far I tried both ways but I’m always struggling to get the desired N and P levels.

Maybe the food option is more natural also because food transformed in excrements contains ammonia which is beneficial for corals

 

[braaap]

I dose Nyos N and p. Works great and is affordable. Reefroids has too many variables. Atleast with a liquid you know what you are dosing.

 

[rishma]

For the last several days I have maintained very consistent phosphate without dosing trisodium phosphate. I’ll need to continue for another week to be sure I have it dialed in, but I believe it’s plausible. I’ll then do it for a month.

I very precisely weigh my food but phosphate was falling without TSP. I have kept my carbon dosing unchanged. I have been precisely measuring a small volume of reef roids for added phosphate to offset the TSP. I was adding enough TSP daily to boost phosphate by 0.03ppm. I think I am close to finding the replacement volume using reef roids.

I don’t have any idea if using reef roids is better for the corals than using TSP. This is just an experiment. The level of precision I am employing is not impractical for my purposes because I make up a month batch of individual miniature frozen cubes of food that are consistent. It’s certainly more work than dosing liquid with a dosing pump, which is what I think most people should do.

One thing is learned from running a nano tank that I am away from for a month at time is …if I want stability, consistency of inputs is key. In the past I fed the tank haphazardly depending on my whims of the day. I decided to start treating food like alkalinity to see if I could achieve similar stability. Seems to be working.

 

[Faurek]

Is more fish out of question here? I have found for myself that feeding is better then dosing, so I would either up the reef roids or get more fish and feed those.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Is more fish out of question here? I have found for myself that feeding is better then dosing, so I would either up the reef roids or get more fish and feed those.

In what way is it better? Maybe it depends on what you are dosing.

 

[josh57]

I dose Nyos N and p. Works great and is affordable. Reefroids has too many variables. Atleast with a liquid you know what you are dosing.

Nyos is the one for this as well.

 

[hoffmeyerz]

Is more fish out of question here? I have found for myself that feeding is better then dosing, so I would either up the reef roids or get more fish and feed those.

Adding fish is in the plan but it will be slowly adding over time. Upping Reefeoids is dangerous as I'm walking a fine line right now trying to avoid spikes in P and it's hard to keep a consistent level.
Honestly dosing tsp through the DOS seems like the easiest way to approach this and throw occasional small feedings of Reefeoids to supplement.

 

[hoffmeyerz]

Nyos is the one for this as well.

I'm not very familiar with Nyos. I've never used it but I will look into it.

 

[josh57]

I'm not very familiar with Nyos. I've never used it but I will look into it.

That phosphate just seemed to be the cheapest for the concentration for value. (Without doing something diy). But it has lasted for a long time and been a while since I bought it. And did the math to find the cheapest so not for sure if it still is.

 

[Faurek]

In what way is it better? Maybe it depends on what you are dosing.

I can just say that with more fish corals seemed happier and fatter then using chemicals, with chemicals they seemed less robust as in every change would get exasturbated, I now look at fish as poop and pee makers for coral, maybe it's nutritional is more complete or maybe what leaches from the food to the water. This is independent of SPS, LPS, softies and applies to some inverts too.
Interestingly enough found the same with macroalgae but way less pronounced.

 

[Faurek]

Adding fish is in the plan but it will be slowly adding over time. Upping Reefeoids is dangerous as I'm walking a fine line right now trying to avoid spikes in P and it's hard to keep a consistent level.
Honestly dosing tsp through the DOS seems like the easiest way to approach this and throw occasional small feedings of Reefeoids to supplement.

Yes, do one at a time and monitor the increase over a month, not telling to put a school of cardinals. Unless the fish you want can't be introduced that way. Always pay attention to hierarchy.

 

[rishma]

I can just say that with more fish corals seemed happier and fatter then using chemicals, with chemicals they seemed less robust as in every change would get exasturbated, I now look at fish as poop and pee makers for coral, maybe it's nutritional is more complete or maybe what leaches from the food to the water. This is independent of SPS, LPS, softies and applies to some inverts too.

I understand the logic that food and waste might be preferable for corals because it adds particulate foods, but i think also using chemicals is good way to go if it helps people maintain stable levels. I am not sure I follow the more robust comment.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

That phosphate just seemed to be the cheapest for the concentration for value. (Without doing something diy). But it has lasted for a long time and been a while since I bought it. And did the math to find the cheapest so not for sure if it still is.

It would be surprising to me if it was cheaper than food grade sodium phosphate, which also has a purity assurance most hobby products lack.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I can just say that with more fish corals seemed happier and fatter then using chemicals, with chemicals they seemed less robust as in every change would get exasturbated, I now look at fish as poop and pee makers for coral, maybe it's nutritional is more complete or maybe what leaches from the food to the water. This is independent of SPS, LPS, softies and applies to some inverts too.
Interestingly enough found the same with macroalgae but way less pronounced.

So maybe the wrong chemicals being dosed. Ammonia may be better than nitrate, and food adds a lot of trace elements.

 

[josh57]

Update on my tank. Not a scientific experiment by any means. Lots of things changing in the tank right now. Lights still slowly ramping up after them being way too low.

Threw the phosphate on the doser when I dropped back down to 0.05 after a big jump from a reef roids feeding. Started at at 2 ml a day. 1 ml every 12 hours.

Been a little over a week I think. Phosphate has dropped too low again. Down to 0.01. Upping the dosage to 5 ml a day. Will test again in a couple days. Using Hannah ULR to test.

Corals are really starting to take off. I think combo of not having the lights too dim. And phosphate being bottomed out anymore (mostly).

Zoes seem much happier and went from no new polyps to a 5-6 head jump on one of the frags.

 

[rishma]

Update on my tank. Not a scientific experiment by any means. Lots of things changing in the tank right now. Lights still slowly ramping up after them being way too low.

Threw the phosphate on the doser when I dropped back down to 0.05 after a big jump from a reef roids feeding. Started at at 2 ml a day. 1 ml every 12 hours.

Been a little over a week I think. Phosphate has dropped too low again. Down to 0.01. Upping the dosage to 5 ml a day. Will test again in a couple days. Using Hannah ULR to test.

Corals are really starting to take off. I think combo of not having the lights too dim. And phosphate being bottomed out anymore (mostly).

Zoes seem much happier and went from no new polyps to a 5-6 head jump on one of the frags.

Glad things are looking up! I think dosing phosphate is a great way to stabilize the tank. Definitely up the dose if it’s falling.

 

[hoffmeyerz]

Update on my tank. Not a scientific experiment by any means. Lots of things changing in the tank right now. Lights still slowly ramping up after them being way too low.

Threw the phosphate on the doser when I dropped back down to 0.05 after a big jump from a reef roids feeding. Started at at 2 ml a day. 1 ml every 12 hours.

Been a little over a week I think. Phosphate has dropped too low again. Down to 0.01. Upping the dosage to 5 ml a day. Will test again in a couple days. Using Hannah ULR to test.

Corals are really starting to take off. I think combo of not having the lights too dim. And phosphate being bottomed out anymore (mostly).

Zoes seem much happier and went from no new polyps to a 5-6 head jump on one of the frags.

That's great info and I'm glad to hear your corals are liking it!

 

[josh57]

Tested again. Phosphates back down to 0.01. Upped dosing to 5ml every 12 hours now… seems so high

 

[hoffmeyerz]

Tested again. Phosphates back down to 0.01. Upped dosing to 5ml every 12 hours now… seems so high

Wow, that does seem high, still using Nyos? Did anything recently change in the tank or new corals that may be taking more of the phosphate out?