Mandarin feeding plan - is he looking fed enough?

[saltyfish24]

How big were yours when you first got them? I am asking because I really want one, but am seriously nervous about the size. I am afraid something else in my tank will eat it if too small. The biggest fish in my tank are both veggie fish. I have a Naso tang and a foxface.

My Biota was a little smaller than an inch when I got it. But in the month and half of QT and another two weeks in isolation box in main tank, it grew fast. The willingness to chow down on TDO pellets provides a lot of dense nutrition that pods can't match. There was a little aggression in my tank, but they're so calm in the face of aggression that the other fish kinda realize to just quit it. That's been my experience anyways.

A photo of the belly would be needed to confirm, if you can post one.

I've seen bigger mandarins do fine for years in smaller tanks than yours. It's totally possible, just not typical. Most of the wild mandarins I've seen coming from wholesalers are skinny and will starve before they wean onto frozen food. For smaller tanks, weaning is necessary to supplement their foraging.

I don't shop for mandarins by color, I do it by the size of the belly. That increased my success rate a lot. I haven't tried one of the captive-bred ones that eat pellets though. They likely fare better.

I think with captive bread Mandarins that take pellets, tank size isn't as big a problem. If you're relying on copepods, tank size might not even be a good indicator of pod density. Even large tanks vary in terms of the amount of pod habitat and phytoplankton availability. Once we switch to feeding TDO pellets to Mandarins, it's a entirely different conversation - ie competition for TDO pellets rather than copepod population.

 

[saltyfish24]

OP is no longer interested in those facts. They are convinced Mandarins don’t have that kind of dietary need. I think all we can do now is help OP improve their chances. So many of these beautiful fish are killed b/c people want them so bad they’ll convince themselves they’ll be the exception. I know because I did it. Once. And I still think about how terrible that was.

Today I moved the Mandarin back to the isolation box to more easily feed him pellets. My challenge right now is competition for pellets rather than copepods or tank maturity. If you've never had a Mandarin that eats pellets and have had poor experience with wild caught Mandarin in the past, I can understand where you're coming from, but that understanding isn't accurate anymore. There are tons of recent examples of cultured Mandarins being successful on TDO pellets alone. I can see mine eat tens of pellets a day in the isolation box, so I can account for that nutrient intake. There's very little pods in the isolation box.

My original post regarding not seeing pods is why I think people relying on copepod-fed Mandarins have trouble and why there's such a big warning about Mandarins in the first place. It's hard to know how much pods you have in the tank. It's hard to account for that nutrition. It's not like you can count every pod your mandarin eats.

 

[afboundguy]

I've heard that same things mentioned about Mandarins needing constant small feedings. But I've also heard other people with captive bred Mandarins have pretty good success with just a couple of feedings per day. I myself observed my Mandarin doing pretty well in isolation with just 2 or 3 feedings of TDO pellets when there's very little access to pods to account for them doing well. So whatever the physiology of their stomachs, I tend to believe Mandarins can live on a couple of feedings per day. It's not their natural feeding style, but I don't think they'd starve. There's just seems too many accounts of pellet eating Mandarins to think mine is an exception.

Short term that will work but long term it won't work. They would definitely starve to death long term in a QT-tank style environment without pods.

 

[saltyfish24]

A photo of the belly would be needed to confirm, if you can post one.

Still not quite a belly photo, but I was able to take these. The condition shown in these photos is a result of a week in gen pop so to speak. I just put him back in isolation box to ensure good pellet feeding and to rig up a bitter pellet feeder in main tank.

 

[sgdnycct]

Head a beauty! Looks active too.

I was able to get a decent look at his belly. He could fatten up a little more but overall I think he’s looking good. Watch the belly- of it goes concave at all from the lower sides or the bottom up then you’ll know that he needs more food.

Here’s where I think people miss it it: you have to catch it early on. The belly should be plump and rounded and look almost bloated. Once you see any sharp lines or a deep curve in the undersides it’s probably too late.

If he doesn’t get any skinnier from here he should be good. I’d aim to plump him up a little bit more to be safe.

 

[landlubber]

a mandarin that eats pellets is great and all but its a distraction to what is really important... having an established population of copepods because that is what its going to be eating 99% of the time and If you watch them eat, they take one about every 25 seconds all day.

 

[afboundguy]

Still not quite a belly photo, but I was able to take these. The condition shown in these photos is a result of a week in gen pop so to speak. I just put him back in isolation box to ensure good pellet feeding and to rig up a bitter pellet feeder in main tank.

Just a heads up but your he looks like he is really a she! But body physique looks good!

 

[sgdnycct]

Still not quite a belly photo, but I was able to take these. The condition shown in these photos is a result of a week in gen pop so to speak. I just put him back in isolation box to ensure good pellet feeding and to rig up a bitter pellet feeder in main tank.

Just a heads up but your he looks like he is really a she! But body physique looks good!

LOL! I think you’re right!

 

[Paul B]

My original post regarding not seeing pods is why I think people relying on copepod-fed Mandarins have trouble and why there's such a big warning about Mandarins in the first place. It's hard to know how much pods you have in the tank. It's hard to account for that nutrition. It's not like you can count every pod your mandarin eats.

I know how many pods they eat. I can't find a video of just my mandarins eating but I also have a mated pair of these Ruby Reds which are basically the same fish with the same diet. Every time he dips his head down he is eating a pod. So I assume, about every 5 seconds, he eats a pod. And I never bought a pod

 

[Garibaldimon]

I brought this small Mandarin that has been cultured and raised on TDO pellets. It did a great job of eating TDO pellets while in QT. He would pick it off the sand as well as pick it off the water surface. Great job at eating. While in QT and later in isolation box, I tried to fatten it up with TDO pellets because it was so easy.

Now that he is in my main tank, he has to compete with a yellow coris wrasse, two clown fish, and tail spot blenny that are all much faster eaters of the TDO pellets. I have to stratgic about feeding the Mandarin using a long pipet, and even then there are days where I don't think he got more than one of two TDO pellets before the other fish steal it.

I'm attaching photos of the Mandarin from May 2nd and May 11th this month when he has been in my main tank (released from isolation box). Does he look too skinny? I'm worried he's not eating enough.

My tank is a 30 gallon Biocube AIO. I know, kinda small. I dose 1 liter of phyto (mix of 50% Tetraselmis and 50% Rhodomonus) that I culture every week. I use the back filter area of the biocube as a refugium with chaeto and rubble, and I also have some rock and 3D printed pod hotels in the main tank for copepod habitat. I added Tisbe pods in March, but also had a 3-pod mix late last year. Despite adding so much phyto, I don't spot copepods in the main part of the tank. I think maybe the yellow coris wrasse picks on the ones that are out in the open. I see them in the chaeto though. The Mandarin is the smallest fish in the tank, only about 1". But he doesn't get picked on much and seems to adapt well. He's been in the main tank for almost 2 weeks and hovers all over looking for food.

My intention is for the Mandarin to get enough nutrition from the combination of strategic feeding of TDO pellets and the copepods growing in the tank. Hopfully my phyto dosing is helping to boost the pod population. But I'm a bit concern that I don't actually spot any pods crawling around in the main tank and maybe the pod portion of his diet isn't cutting it. During QT and isolation, I was feeding the Mandarin about 30 x-small TDO pellets over the course of one day, so I figure I'm trying to make up for at least 20 TDO pellets worth of nutrition with copepods.

What do you think? Is it a good plan, or am I missing something?

Hungry fish is a healthy fish