Mandarin Rescue Attempt

[litsoh]

Follow up from this thread:

Is this Mandarin skinny?

In the case that a fish does feed off its liver, is it essentially moribund at that point? It can become. The pic you doers posted suggest a skinny mandarin

www.reef2reef.com

Promising signs, the skinny captive bred Mandarin I saw at my LFS was seen eating some fish eggs a couple days ago so I decided to come by on my day off and take him in so she could have a better chance in my tank. In the couple days before I set up an acclimation box and put a couple rocks in along with some food sources to attract pods in so that everything would be all set and a steady supply would be available.

After the acclimation it went to work on the pods in the tank. I took this as a promising sign and added in some TDO pellets, which it occasionally picked at as well. Thankfully I’m not really seeing any signs of lethargy so gonna keep my fingers crossed and hope that it’ll be able to fatten up quickly.

I’m also pretty sure this is a female, so her new name will now be Fishy Elliot.

 

[litsoh]

It’s pretty crazy how small of a size they get shipped at. I swear one of my cardinals was trying to size her up to see if she would fit in its mouth

 

[litsoh]

Day 2 and the Mandarin is still actively feeding around the box. I left a few pellets for her to eat but I’ve noticed that she tends to spit them out afterwards, so it might take a little work for her to start accepting it. I’ll try again with some fish eggs when I get back from work.

I’ve also seen some other pictures of juveniles and now I’m not sure sure if this one is a male and a female. Apparently it can be harder to tell when they’re young. Would anyone be able to identify here?

 

[littlefoxx]

Day 2 and the Mandarin is still actively feeding around the box. I left a few pellets for her to eat but I’ve noticed that she tends to spit them out afterwards, so it might take a little work for her to start accepting it. I’ll try again with some fish eggs when I get back from work.

I’ve also seen some other pictures of juveniles and now I’m not sure sure if this one is a male and a female. Apparently it can be harder to tell when they’re young. Would anyone be able to identify here?

Female! The male would have a larger fin with a longer point, kinda like a streamer

 

[litsoh]

Female! The male would have a larger fin with a longer point, kinda like a streamer

Looks like I'll be in the market for a male later on then

 

[litsoh]

I also have the acclimation box higher up in the tank, close to the water line. Would it be better to bring it down closer to the sand so that the pods can more easily get in or is it okay as is?

 

[littlefoxx]

I also have the acclimation box higher up in the tank, close to the water line. Would it be better to bring it down closer to the sand so that the pods can more easily get in or is it okay as is?

Not sure honestly, maybe dose some pods into the acclimation box?

 

[litsoh]

Not sure honestly, maybe dose some pods into the acclimation box?

As it is right now they don't have too much trouble getting inside, and they're pretty much crawling all over the glass. It might just be the paranoia talking haha

 

[litsoh]

Was able to catch her pooping, so it’s a definite sign that she’s been able to get some food in her. The size of it in relation to her body is pretty crazy too, almost a fifth of her body length. I think her belly is looking a little more full at least compared to the previous photos but you can still see the bone on the sides of her body. I realize that it’s probably something that won’t cure itself in a couple days so just hoping in the next couple weeks she’ll be looking better.

 

[Kmst80]

If you got pods in your tank on the glass she will fatten up. Make sure you got a cover on the top, mandarins love to jump out of the tank, i lost one this way. If she survives the first week and actively eats she'll be fine.
Good luck.

 

[homer1475]

Very juvenile male.

Give it a few months, you'll see the typical long dorsal spike start to develop.

 

[litsoh]

If you got pods in your tank on the glass she will fatten up. Make sure you got a cover on the top, mandarins love to jump out of the tank, i lost one this way. If she survives the first week and actively eats she'll be fine.
Good luck.

Yeah at the moment she's in an acclimation box with a lid just so I can ensure she's getting food in her and fattening up. Been doing okay so far and I wanna say her stomach is no longer sunken in. If only there was a way to weigh fish this small without stressing them lol

 

[litsoh]

Very juvenile male.

Give it a few months, you'll see the typical long dorsal spike start to develop.

Oh really? What kind of indications do you look at? I've been trying to compare the dorsal fin to other pictures I've seen

 

[homer1475]

Just look at the dorsal fin. Yes no defined spike yet, but there is the start of the typical male spike.

The female's dorsal fin is completely round with no "spikes" in the fin. If you look at yours, the front of the fin is higher then the rest, as it's the start of the male spike.

Indications, 30 years of keeping them has taught me what to look for in juveniles.

 

[litsoh]

Just look at the dorsal fin. Yes no defined spike yet, but there is the start of the typical male spike.

The female's dorsal fin is completely round with no "spikes" in the fin. If you look at yours, the front of the fin is higher then the rest, as it's the start of the male spike.

Indications, 30 years of keeping them has taught me what to look for in juveniles.

Looks like I’ll need to think of another name then lol

How’s your experience been with training them to take pellet/prepared foods? So far I’ve just been trying to let some pellets/fish eggs sink to the bottom and he’ll pick at the pellets every once in a while. It’s kinda hit or miss. Gonna be trying some frozen mysis/brine soon to see if he might like that a little more

 

[homer1475]

I've had a few wild caught, and a 2 CB mandys.

While I never try to train them, the wild caught eventually took to frozen and pellets, although I would never, ever rely on that to feed them. They are obligate eaters(meaning they are carnivores that eat only meat), regardless of what you feed them, their digestive tracts are not designed to eat prepared food, and their digestive tracts are so small they pass through most nutrients that are in prepared foods(it just doesn't break down far enough). This is why they eat so much, and so often.

The 2 CB's I've had, started out with frozen and pellets, but quickly reverted to pods only when in a pod packed tank.

I would never keep a mandarin and expect it to thrive on prepared, or frozen food.

 

[litsoh]

I've had a few wild caught, and a 2 CB mandys.

While I never try to train them, the wild caught eventually took to frozen and pellets, although I would never, ever rely on that to feed them. They are obligate eaters(meaning they are carnivores that eat only meat), regardless of what you feed them, their digestive tracts are not designed to eat prepared food, and their digestive tracts are so small they pass through most nutrients that are in prepared foods(it just doesn't break down far enough). This is why they eat so much, and so often.

The 2 CB's I've had, started out with frozen and pellets, but quickly reverted to pods only when in a pod packed tank.

I would never keep a mandarin and expect it to thrive on prepared, or frozen food.

I’m definitely just aiming to have it used to accepting these as a supplementary food, especially at this stage since it is still fairly thin. I made sure to dose my tank with pods early on so that there is a stable population by the time I introduced a mandarin. Thankfully they’ve taken off and I can see all four glass panels covered with them every night.

It’s been fairly smooth sailing so far, his belly is a lot more pronounced than when I saw him at the LFS and he’s actively hunting.

 

[Hallowhead]

I've had a few wild caught, and a 2 CB mandys.

While I never try to train them, the wild caught eventually took to frozen and pellets, although I would never, ever rely on that to feed them. They are obligate eaters(meaning they are carnivores that eat only meat), regardless of what you feed them, their digestive tracts are not designed to eat prepared food, and their digestive tracts are so small they pass through most nutrients that are in prepared foods(it just doesn't break down far enough). This is why they eat so much, and so often.

The 2 CB's I've had, started out with frozen and pellets, but quickly reverted to pods only when in a pod packed tank.

I would never keep a mandarin and expect it to thrive on prepared, or frozen food.

How do you keep the pod population up? I've never had good success, I used to breed and feed every other week, but my mandarins always kicked the bucket

 

[twentyleagues]

I was going to say its very hard to tell male and female at that young but like @homer1475 said I believe its male. They are also spot on about feeding it. I have had a few of these in my previous reef life (99-12) mine were only wc as there wasnt any cb for the most part. All mine eventually would accept frozen and pick at pellets if the other fish didnt get there first. I wouldnt expect them to survive on only prepared foods regardless of what breeders are saying especially with other fish in the tank. Your pod population needs to be large enough and self-sustaining to keep up with the high predation of this fish.

 

[litsoh]

How do you keep the pod population up? I've never had good success, I used to breed and feed every other week, but my mandarins always kicked the bucket

In my case it’s probably a combination of tank size and the fact that none of the other fish are exclusively pod hunters. I’ve also been dosing phyto