MarsAqua question

[Mattrg02]

He runs his at 100%. They do degrade being pushed that hard for that long. Diodes are extremely cheap and changing them keeps the spectrum from trailing off in time.

No, no they won’t. They are designed by the manufacturer to last 25k to 50k hrs AT the specified drive parameters. Look up the data sheet and find the rated lifetime. It’ll tell you exactly what temperature they must stay under and the operating current. Most data sheets will also give a curve showing how lifetime is reduced as you exceed these operating parameters.

Having to use these diodes at less than the manufacturers specs only means that thermal management, or operating conditions, aren’t up to snuff.

 

[trido]

Having to replace diodes every few years is completely against the miracle that leds have claimed to be.

If your diodes are overheating, then thermal management needs to be your focus. The diodes are rated for 25,000 hrs, at least.

25000 hrs under ideal conditions. With a thin piece of aluminum called a heat sink, fans that get dirty from dust and salt creep and also having fixtures crammed tightly together, the conditions are far from ideal. I get 9000 hours out of my blue emitters at 100% capacity before replacing them. That's not too bad. My tank speaks for itself.

 

[Mattrg02]

25000 hrs under ideal conditions. With a thin piece of aluminum called a heat sink, fans that get dirty from dust and salt creep and also having fixtures crammed tightly together, the conditions are far from ideal. I get 9000 hours out of my blue emitters at 100% capacity before replacing them. That's not too bad. My tank speaks for itself.

This is no different than keeping anything else clean, like your pumps and skimmer. Clean your fans :)

You change the oil in your car, don’t you?

 

[Flippers4pups]

No, no they won’t. They are designed by the manufacturer to last 25k to 50k hrs AT the specified drive parameters. Look up the data sheet and find the rated lifetime. It’ll tell you exactly what temperature they must stay under and the operating current. Most data sheets will also give a curve showing how lifetime is reduced as you exceed these operating parameters.

Having to use these diodes at less than the manufacturers specs only means that thermal management, or operating conditions, aren’t up to snuff.

I would have to respectfully disagree with you on this. Just because a manufacturer states that they last X number of hours, doesn't mean that they will even emit the same spectrum at the end of that time. There has been controlled studies done on life span/spectrum on LED diodes and they do shift in color and intensity over time. How much is dependant on quality of materials and a manufacturers quality control. It still varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. Those gaps in quality have improved over the years.

Heat management is subjective to how they are used by a assembler/manufacturer of light fixtures. Yes this is detailed as requirements by the diode manufacturer on how they are applied in a fixture.

 

[Mattrg02]

I would have to respectfully disagree with you on this. Just because a manufacturer states that they last X number of hours, doesn't mean that they will even emit the same spectrum at the end of that time. There has been controlled studies done on life span/spectrum on LED diodes and they do shift in color and intensity over time. How much is dependant on quality of materials and a manufacturers quality control. It still varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. Those gaps in quality have improved over the years.

Heat management is subjective to how they are used by a assembler/manufacturer of light fixtures. Yes this is detailed as requirements by the diode manufacturer on how they are applied in a fixture.

Fine. Follow the manufacturer specs, maintain fixtures, or just keep wasting money on new diodes.

The OP asked what was up with his diodes. Slapping stuff together is the answer.

 

[redfishbluefish]

If interested, I documented the changing of the blue LED's in the Apollo fixtures I had....HERE. I also "lost" the blues in a Mars Aqua I had, but being lazy, I simply switched out the entire board with a board from SBReef.....five minutes and I was done.

 

[trido]

This is no different than keeping anything else clean, like your pumps and skimmer. Clean your fans :)

You change the oil in your car, don’t you?

Are you saying I dont? Have you tried cleaning a fan in an LED fixture? You have to physically take them off the tank and take the fixture apart to get to the blades with a tooth brush. How many reefers world wide do you think would do this in the life of a light fixture, or annually, or semi annually? Seems to me you're not contributing anything to this thread other than confrontation.

 

[Mattrg02]

Are you saying I dont? Have you tried cleaning a fan in an LED fixture? You have to physically take them off the tank and take the fixture apart to get to the blades with a tooth brush. How many reefers world wide do you think would do this in the life of a light fixture, or annually, or semi annually? Seems to me you're not contributing anything to this thread other than confrontation.

Yes. It’s not hard to clean the one in my hydra26hd.

Sorry you find it confrontational to simply state the FACTS about leds.

Go back to buying Chinese leds, hodge podging it all together, and replacing leds super prematurely.

I’m out.

 

[trido]

Having to use these diodes at less than the manufacturers specs only means that thermal management, or operating conditions, aren’t up to snuff.

Correct. You seem to be forgetting one HUGE difference. LED manufactured recommended maximum heat compared to Black box manufacturers profit. Can you tell me if Mars Aqua took this into consideration when they slapped the black boxes together and marketed them. I know plenty of people that get upwards of five to six years out of their cheap fixtures. But they are not running them over 60% either.

 

[Flippers4pups]

Fine. Follow the manufacturer specs, maintain fixtures, or just keep wasting money on new diodes.

The OP asked what was up with his diodes. Slapping stuff together is the answer.

It's really no different than replacing T5 bulbs, the fixture itself is still usable. Refreshing the diodes with new ones is no different. The difference is that they are not as easy to replace, as in T5's. Logic would dictate not discarding the whole fixture if a single diode burnt out. Same holds true if it's CBB'S or Radions. Just easier and cheaper to do with CCB'S than Radions.

I'll run mine as long as diodes are available or driver/dimers crap out. Then I'll buy the same fixture and do it all over again.

 

[Flippers4pups]

Correct. You seem to be forgetting one HUGE difference. LED manufactured recommended maximum heat compared to Black box manufacturers profit. Can you tell me if Mars Aqua took this into consideration when they slapped the black boxes together and marketed them. I know plenty of people that get upwards of five to six years out of their cheap fixtures. But they are not running them over 60% either.

I'm definitely running under 100%. Five to six years of use in this hobby is a eternity! With the cost of lightning where it's at and where it will be in 5-6 years, I'd be more than happy to purchase them again. I spent just under $300 for three fixtures, shipped free to my door a couple years ago. I'd do it again.

 

[JCOLE]

I have (4) MarsAqua black boxes on my 150 SPS Dominate reef. I recently added (2) ATI Blue+ bulbs and it has helped with spectrum. I am running blues at 100% and whites currently at 50% at peak. I am looking to switch out some of my diodes to help with the blues and change the lower end Kelvin diodes to a cooler white. I have not done this before and looking for a little help with this. Is there a good video or link to follow for doing this? I am looking at these below on Amazon. Would these diodes work for replacing the old diodes?

Amazon product

Amazon product

This is my current layout

@trido Do you have a copy of the layout you used when running black boxes?

 

[Flippers4pups]

I have (4) MarsAqua black boxes on my 150 SPS Dominate reef. I recently added (2) ATI Blue+ bulbs and it has helped with spectrum. I am running blues at 100% and whites currently at 50% at peak. I am looking to switch out some of my diodes to help with the blues and change the lower end Kelvin diodes to a cooler white. I have not done this before and looking for a little help with this. Is there a good video or link to follow for doing this? I am looking at these below on Amazon. Would these diodes work for replacing the old diodes?

Amazon product

Amazon product

This is my current layout

@trido Do you have a copy of the layout you used when running black boxes?

Post #1011 details what I changed on mine this last time.

Build Thread - Flippers reef 125 gallon

Ha! I miss the days of thimble size components and wide open pcb’s.. no microscope, flow table or steady hand required ;) brings back fond memories of my heath kit days. You know, Angelia and I still have our ole Pioneer tube receiver / amp. Round tuner dial too. Still sounds as good, as day...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[JCOLE]

Post #1011 details what I changed on mine this last time.

Build Thread - Flippers reef 125 gallon

Ha! I miss the days of thimble size components and wide open pcb’s.. no microscope, flow table or steady hand required ;) brings back fond memories of my heath kit days. You know, Angelia and I still have our ole Pioneer tube receiver / amp. Round tuner dial too. Still sounds as good, as day...

www.reef2reef.com

Great info. Thank you. How easy are they to remove? I can solder just never removed diodes from these before. I imagine just pop and pray. Lol

 

[redfishbluefish]

I would highly suggest a solder sucker and/or solder wick to clean off old solder. You will also need thermal grease, and a quality grease that's affordable is Artic Silver Ceramique 2. If this is your first time, also note that positive and negative sides are also important. Most PCB boards I've seen are marked + and -, and if you look very closely at most LED beads, there is a "-" on the negative side of the bead.

 

[Flippers4pups]

I would highly suggest a solder sucker and/or solder wick to clean off old solder. You will also need thermal grease, and a quality grease that's affordable is Artic Silver Ceramique 2. If this is your first time, also note that positive and negative sides are also important. Most PCB boards I've seen are marked + and -, and if you look very closely at most LED beads, there is a "-" on the negative side of the bead.

I can't remember but some have a notch. Can't remember if it's positive or negative.

 

[redfishbluefish]

Don, this bead I'm showing has a + and - on the end of the tails, but also includes a cut out - on the left side just outside the housing. The beads I get have this "notch" of a "-" just like in the picture.

 

[JCOLE]

@redfishbluefish @Flippers4pups Thanks guys for your suggestions! See below. I made a mock up of what I am thinking of doing. LED's are scarce right now on Ebay and Amazon because of the travel issues from China, etc. I can get my hands on the following from Amazon and I am about to order them. Waiting to hear from you all first. I am trying to get by with what I currently have in place. I currently have a 450nm in some places where you show a 460nm. Can I leave the 450nm in place instead of swapping those? Also, 13000K is hard to find. I have 12000K already in place in some areas so I was thinking of leaving those. In other areas, I am going to swap out with a 20000K instead. Also, 520nm showed in one spot above where @Flippers4pups layout showed. To save cost I was thinking of just leaving the 520nm where it is at and putting a 20000k in place of the 3500K.

What do you all think? Would this be too far into the 20000K spectrum? I don't mind that if so. I just want to remove the yellowish tint I have and hope this new spectrum is better for color and growth.

@Flippers4pups Layout

My Layout

What I am about to order if this would work?

Thanks guys for the help!

 

[Flippers4pups]

I'm getting ready for work, working second shift since the pandemic outbreak.

Removing the 3500k's, 6500k and adding the 12000k and 20000k helps with removing the "yellow".

20000k is more blue white in spectrum.

 

[JCOLE]

I'm getting ready for work, working second shift since the pandemic outbreak.

Removing the 3500k's, 6500k and adding the 12000k and 20000k helps with removing the "yellow".

20000k is more blue white in spectrum.

Ok. I removed the 6000K and replaced them with 20000K on my mark up. How does this look? Do you think this would be a good spectrum for color and growth?

Stay safe out there!