Matt’s 90 gal build.

[Mattman1977]

So I picked up a used 90 gal reef ready with stand for $180. Took 6 hours worth of driving to pick it up but still was a deal.

So planning on a herbie with a over the back return. Pair of mp40qd, 4 t5 bulbs with maybe some AI hydra 26 not sold on the leds yet, picked up a reef octopus sump

Been cleaned of course. A bubble curve 7 skimmer and will pick up a vortex or reef octopus return pump. Might pick up a used apex classic to help keep things in line

Of course I won’t be setting it up for a little while with my house on the market and a cross country move ahead of me.

Now this will be my third tank. So to speak. I started reefing after Christmas of 17 when my wife bought me a 55 gal from petsmart. I made a all In one softie tank that did well until I had a dino infection that lasted over a year before I took it down. I took it down due to moving and the realtor saying “it made my living room look small” that was about 3 months ago. Well about 9 months ago I set up a qt tank and a 125 gal tank cut in half, due to a drilling mishap, well I pulled the fish and coral out of the 55 and placed the fish in the 61 gal coral grow out tank and the coral in my 20 long qt tank with a 29 gal sump as I had some unwanted guest in my softie tank.

Planning on moving the fish I have now along with the coral I have back into the 55 directly after I move and setting up my 90 slowly and with you guys help as I’ve had nothing but nutrient issues with all of my tanks. From too low to too high. From dino to cyano, at this point I would be fine with gha haha. Anyways I guess I can’t seen to find that balance and would like your help maybe I can get some pointers in my setup to help me have a better experience reefing.

Thought about a fuge but still not 100% sure about it or how to set it up.

So guys help me with your idea and thoughts

Matt

 

[w2inc]

I grow Chaeto in my sump under a bright light and I feel like it is the buffer that keeps nutrients in check. Lately I have had had some elevated PO4, but I can cut it in half overnight with 10 ppm NO3. It has been a couple years and I am sticking with it.

If I had your sump, I would not add the filter socks, Put a 100 watt LED grow light over the big open space and see if you can get a skimmer in the last section and run the pump externally.

I recently paid $90 to upgrade may fuge light to one with the new Samsung LM301B and after par testing it I am pretty excited about what they have made 65 watts do.

For me, big Chaeto grow area as a nutrient buffer and monitor my levels bi-weekly if things have stabilized and are looking good.

When I didn't have room for Chaeto in my sump, I ran my overflow into a 5 gallon bucket with Chaeto and a light on it before it hit the sump. I had fine results with it but it was generally cramped.

 

[Mattman1977]

Thanks for the reply w2inc. Hmmmmm interesting so no filter socks? though that would help with keeping it clean? Guess it’s gotta be somewhat dirty to grow chaeto? Like I said I’m still new to this and I’m gonna ask the stupid questions lol.

Almost positive I can’t get my skimmer in the last section it’s real narrow. But I could do a custom sump also. Or remove the filter sock section and weld a piece of acrylic in to add a section for the skimmer. A lot will have to do with space available under the tank once I start setting it up.

I haven’t seen that light yet but will look into it. Was thinking the new Tunze fuge light. I like the idea of waterproof but in no hurry to purchase anything as I’m no where ready to set it up. Plus I like to give new products time to get reviews in.

So is there a guide on here for setting up a fuge? Is there a difference in a fuge verses just a chaeto grow area?

Thanks guys and gals
Matt

 

[w2inc]

Thanks for the reply w2inc. Hmmmmm interesting so no filter socks? though that would help with keeping it clean? Guess it’s gotta be somewhat dirty to grow chaeto? Like I said I’m still new to this and I’m gonna ask the stupid questions lol.

Almost positive I can’t get my skimmer in the last section it’s real narrow. But I could do a custom sump also. Or remove the filter sock section and weld a piece of acrylic in to add a section for the skimmer. A lot will have to do with space available under the tank once I start setting it up.

I haven’t seen that light yet but will look into it. Was thinking the new Tunze fuge light. I like the idea of waterproof but in no hurry to purchase anything as I’m no where ready to set it up. Plus I like to give new products time to get reviews in.

So is there a guide on here for setting up a fuge? Is there a difference in a fuge verses just a chaeto grow area?

Thanks guys and gals
Matt

One of the main tricks to a solid system is just time. I think there is some tipping point about 6 months after a tank is set up when everything starts to work. Seems like that is when all the bacteria, pods and algae find the spot where they are happy and it could be the point when owners stop messing with the systems.

I run a Varios 8 on my 120 display. I have only had it for over a month but I really like it so far. I think you will be happy with Reef Octopus stuff. I recently added Apex to my systems. I really like it but it is expensive and I went without it for years and did fine. If I traveled more, I might call it a must have.

There has got to be a guide on here somewhere about fuge set up but there are so many ways to set up a successful system that I am not sure if there is just one guide. Maybe check out some of the peoples build threads and see where they landed. The Triton Method IMO has a good backbone to it. I feel that if you set up similar to their prescribed method you will have the latitude to run your system however you want without having to get new hardware.

I have moved away from branded Fuge lighting. They are all horticulture lights made to grow plants. I look to that industry when I am looking at fuge lights. There is way more money, time and research going on there. The Samsung LED's I mentioned are found on all kinds of different light brands. They make big claims about how much light they put out per watt and how great the spectrum is. I have a PAR meter and have seen growth results. I feel like they are able to do what they claim. I have bought generic grow lights from amazon that were amazing for $30 and some that were terrible for $35. It is nice that Amazon lets you return them. I have a $25 100 watt 6500k outdoor, waterproof, LED patio light on one of my Chaeto grow areas and it preforms well. Just not as watt per PAR effective as the new one I just got.

BRS has some videos on converting their display to a Triton method tank. There is good info on the site about modifying a sump to make a larger Chaeto grow area. https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/vide...160-to-the-triton-method-52-weeks-of-reefing/ BRS has plenty of reviews and posts on products that they love and later change their mind on and upgrade. You will notice that in the beginning of the video. It is important to remember they are trying to sell you things as well as inform you.

I like what this guy has to say in general. He has been around a long time. He does things a little differently than I do, but has some solid advice. This is a link to a talk he gave at MACNA of 18 about things to think about when setting up a tank. https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/vide...up-a-saltwater-tank-the-right-way-macna-2018/

I m not the sure about Fuge vs grow area on this forum. That is why I always just call it a Chaeto grow area. I am pretty sure they are the same thing. You just need a way to keep the Chaeto in place, get water through it and a light on it. DIY egg crate light diffuser made into a box would work.

When I first heard of the refugium area, it was back in the 90's. It was a slower flow section that had rocks, grew several kinds of algae and usually a deep sand bed. I haven't had a tank set up the entire time since then, but the kinds of algae people like to grow in a fuge have narrowed down. I go with Chaeto because it is easy to keep out of my main display. There are other kinds of algae that grow in there with it and it is not a concern to me.

Algae scrubbers seem to be a new hot thing at the moment. The people who came up with the concept back in the late 80's patented it so it didn't get a lot of attention on the pet side. He let the pattens lapse a few years ago and some people are making nice variations of them. There are claims that growing multiple strains of algae in a scrubber will out preform Chaeto. There is validity to the claims in very specific contexts. For what it is worth, I have been following Addey and Loveland (people who did the original algae scrubber research and wrote the book Dynamic Aquaria about it) since the mid 90's. I have built two scrubber systems. I currently use Chaeto and it is where I would point people that are looking at nutrient export through algae. If I were fish farming, I might look more toward a traditional scrubber.

Straight up bare bottom tank, oversized skimmer, aged live rock, low bio-load and dosing 2 part have been working well for people for years as well. It is how my best friend runs his system. They all have pro and cons. Go with what is most interesting to you.

 

[Mattman1977]

Yeah I watched the video and like the idea. Will different look into setting the sump up for the Triton method. Not sure if I’ll start with using the core 7 stuff but can see that definitely being something to setup for.
Did find a link if anyone happens to need them. Seems to be a decent setup

https://s3.amazonaws.com/brsinstructions/brsTriton/The+unofficial+Triton+Method+for+Dummies.pdf

So according to Triton I need 10x’s dt turnover so I only need 90gph? Man I will need the smallest return pump ever lol. Is it possible to get a quiet herbie drain that slow? I currently have a Varios 6 on my grow out tank, man that pump is awesome. and thought about using it on this build but at 90 gph I might need to look for something smaller or with more flow settings then 5 to get it dialed in the way I want. Guess could always do the manifold ball valve thing, that’s just more clutter in the sump though.

So lights for the chaeto, brs first recommended t5? Kind of surprising. The Tunze one isn’t to overly priced so I thought at $80 but will look closer into horticulture lights.

Matt

 

[w2inc]

That would be 900 gph. Here is a link to the one I recently bought. Needs no fan and runs at 107 f after 2 hours when I tested it. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076QDKVDZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I dont use any of the core products. I run a calcium reactor. My ICP tests come back missing some things. I have dosed them and I am not sure that they do anything for my system.

I just watched this video and made me think of your questions. I think it is worth watching. Julian Sprung has a great track record dating back to the 80's. This one talks about refugiums and how they should be set up as well as what they do.

 

[Mattman1977]

Oh yeah haha I really showed off my math skills didn’t I. 900gph seems fast for a low flow area. Ok so I’ll plan on a Varios 8 that way I have no issue hitting that mark with head pressure and elbows. Plus like to run it slightly slower then max.

I like that light. Seems like they would grow plants extremely well. I have it bookmarked and on my wishlist for the woman to see. I’ve seen that some of the Triton systems have lids over the fuge area I’m not sure why other then evaporation or maybe to keep critters in.

I was thinking about a full all out fuge not just a chaeto grow area. I am still going back and forth on if I want sand in the DT or not but have a feeling my wife will want sand as it looks more natural. But have a bag of crushed coral I could add some into the fuge if need be. I’m actually going to do some reading on planted saltwater tanks as in the video one of them I believe Julian referred to the fuge as a planted saltwater tank under your DT. Maybe I can get a idea or two from that research.

A calcium reactor huh. What kind of coral you keeping? I’m planning mostly softies with some lps the first few years then after the rocks and tank matures I’ll pull the softies and switch to sps and lps that’s my end results hopefully. I don’t see a cal reactor needed for a long time, might not need 2 part for a while even. Was looking at a kalk reactor but not sold on it yet. I’ve never needed to add calcium guess not enough coral to use it up in the time between water changes.

I really appreciate all of your help w2inc everything is starting to come together in my head lol

Matt

 

[w2inc]

I run the Varios 8 through 1" line with a T taking two lines to two double elbows connected to each end of a spray bar. I have a flow meter on it and it averages 1000gph at half speed. It stays the same when I speed it up so I believe that my plumbing is choking it. The line is temporary and I hope to get it upgraded to 1.25" plus this weekend. The 6 might do fine on your tank. I like to oversize and run slower. I think it might let more plankton through than one running full speed.

I keep a lid on my Fuge just to control light leak. Since I run it on reverse daylight I want to be sure my reef tank has a chance to get some dark time. My Fuge sits next to my reef because I got sick of bending over and crawling under things.

When it was in the sump, there was not really any need for a lid. The light all stayed in one place.

My tank is mostly SPS. The calcium reactor works for me in that regard. People do great with 2 part and I ran one system on it for a year. I just felt like the reactor was a once every 6 months deal with it thing and the 2 par was once a month. If you are not taking that much calcium with your system then 2 part might be ideal, or just Kalkwasser and some water changes. This is about 6 weeks ago.

Jean Jaubert was doing some cool low tech tank stuff back in the 90's and still does it now. He spoke at Macna 18 and he has some really simple ways to run things. Look him up and see what he is doing. It might be a good way to design a Fuge and or main display. But remember he is getting live rock and sand from the ocean and has access to a tiny benthic population. I am not sure if you need it or not. He called his system the Microcean system. Lee Shin Eng did similar things at about the same time. They are interesting entry level reads. If you want to go deep, Dynamic Aquaria is the goods in my opinion.

 

[Mattman1977]

Absolutely beautiful tank @w2inc

Man that research into Jean Jaubert really sent me down a rabbit hole. Lots of information most of it old but seemly still usable. I’m thinking about doing a rugf in the fuge just to change things up some from the normal. Still looking into planted tanks but have a while before I have to make the decision on what I’m doing.

So that light you linked that you’re using what par are you getting out of it?

Yeah I like to go bigger on everything to the point it’s barley running most of the times. Usually means quieter operation and less energy use but more $$$ up front. Will probably do that with the return pump. I would of bought a Varios 8 for the grow out tank but was only looking for 400 gph turnover. It’s more of the new style system, bare bottom with oversized skimmer.

Speaking of skimmer. The curve 7 is rated for somewhere around 220 gal tank. Should I look for a smaller skimmer? Plan on pretty heavy stocked tank and the curve 7 was given to me so the price was right but could get a smaller skimmer if need be

Matt

 

[w2inc]

Absolutely beautiful tank @w2inc

Man that research into Jean Jaubert really sent me down a rabbit hole. Lots of information most of it old but seemly still usable. I’m thinking about doing a rugf in the fuge just to change things up some from the normal. Still looking into planted tanks but have a while before I have to make the decision on what I’m doing.

So that light you linked that you’re using what par are you getting out of it?

Yeah I like to go bigger on everything to the point it’s barley running most of the times. Usually means quieter operation and less energy use but more $$$ up front. Will probably do that with the return pump. I would of bought a Varios 8 for the grow out tank but was only looking for 400 gph turnover. It’s more of the new style system, bare bottom with oversized skimmer.

Speaking of skimmer. The curve 7 is rated for somewhere around 220 gal tank. Should I look for a smaller skimmer? Plan on pretty heavy stocked tank and the curve 7 was given to me so the price was right but could get a smaller skimmer if need be

Matt

Keep the big one. Keep your options open. When your system is up and has been established for a while you will have a better idea as to how much skimming you need. You can always put the pump on a timer and run it less time if you feel like it is taking too much out of your tank. You can always put a controllable DC pump on it or find a way to modify the air intake to make it not skim as well.

Things on paper don"t always translate into practice. I couldn't make the Jaubert system work back in the 90's when I first heard about it, but I think I gave up on it too early. Or maybe it was working and it just wouldn't support the things an amounts of stuff I wanted to grow. Reefing was new and I had friends getting great results from bare bottom tanks with oversized skimmers so I just did that.

I have a freshwater tank that is set up the way he describes his freshwater tanks. It is kind of dirty at times, but is generally awesome. It took about 6 months to balance out and I generally just keep my hands off and let it grow what naturally grows well in it.

I like my systems to be as natural and self perpetuating as possible, but I also like to amp things up and try to get accelerated growth out of my SPS.

I did a 2 gallon and a 15 gallon 3 years ago with local ocean rock and sand. Things lived and it was cool to watch, but I didn't have much control over it. The SPS I was keeping in my reef were never able to make it in the experiment tanks and they usually ran pretty high PO4. The 2 gallon was just generally cool. No fish but all kinds of coralline, anemones, worms, slugs and pods. Right now the fish room has 3 tanks over 120 each and there is just no room to experiment, but I am going to do another Jaubert style 15 gallon when I get a place to put it.

 

[Mattman1977]

Ok did some test fitting and with the sump in stand I don’t have the room to have my return pump externally. So here’s my new plan.
There’s my sump 36” wide, going to add a baffle in there just wide enough for my skimmer, did a test fit and figured up to around 14 gal for refugium. That falls in the range of big enough I believe, think I read 10-20% of dt which is 90 gal. Wish I could of pulled off running the return externally.

Got the acrylic and weld on 16 coming. Thinking I’m going to remove the bulkhead and weld a cover on it on the inside to save the space in the stand that the bulkhead and plug would take up for the ato reservoir. Gotta come up with a nifty way of filling that up as its going to be difficult to access but not impossible. Thinking some kind of filler neck kind of like a cars gas tank.

Other then that nothing new really. House I believe is sold so should be moving soon, mid July closing date, then I can actually get started on it.

Planning on starting to bleach soak the used live rock right after the move in a tote while I start repairing and refinishing the stand.

The aquascape will be some sort of arch way raised up off the glass 1.5-2” to allow complete removal of sand if need be. Thinking some kind of acrylic rod epoxied into place for the legs.

Wife like the black sand I’m not sold on it yet. Any thoughts?

Gfo reactor and Carbon reactors I was thinking about using those mini reactors that brs sells but will wait and see how much room I’ll have under the stand.

Might be looking at doing a equipment cabinet next to it cause still need my dosing equipment and all of the electrical stuff. Not really sure how much room I’ll have to play with in the new house. I think I want it in the dinning room and that wall backs up to the garage but living room is a possibility also.

Anyways enough rambling
Happy reefing
Matt

 

[kelseymybelle]

Matt that sump looks awesome, and it sounds (to me at least) like your plan for a refugium section could work. I'm no expert though! I'm also setting up a used 90 gallon reef-ready, it's quite the process. Good luck!

 

[Mattman1977]

Yeah thanks @kelseymybelle definitely can’t beat the price point, free. I did order the baffle and plate for the cover and some weld on 16 so will be out $30 for sump. I can live with that. Thinking I’m gonna go strait PaulB with the refugium with a reverse undergravel filter. Might even go that way in the DT not sure yet.

So many decisions
Happy reefing
Matt

 

[w2inc]

Sump looks good. I agree, patch the hole to save some space. I always want extra space.

There will be a day when you wish you had access to your ATO bucket. You may want to clean out the biofilm and other potential awful things that can grow in standing water. Since you are redoing your stand anyway, maybe make you could make one of the end panels removable? Or make it into an additional door?

I would totally do an equipment cabinet if I had the option. My vote is stick the tank in the dining room, put a hole in the wall and put all the filter stuff in the garage. Then use the stand as the cabinet. Is that an option?

I think black sand looks pretty awesome. I used crushed coral because I wanted the white color to reflect some light back up and help spread light around the tank. I also wanted to have a calcium carbonate buffer that would release ALK and CAL and other trace elements. I think that I second light strip would have solved my first concern and that my calcium reactor solves my second. I am interested to hear what others think about it.

I have used the BRS full size reactors and am happy with them. Seems like the mini would be just fine. I run carbon and GFO at separate speeds. Often times I dont use them. Plan for a couple valves off of your main line to run them on. Separate them from your main line with a union so you have the option for an easy swap if you need to reconfigure things. Keep the return line really simple (few bends) to maximize the flow from your pump.



I have bleached and acid dipped my rocks and other times did nothing. It is nice to start out with clean looking rock.

I am a little paranoid about Palytoxin from dead Zoa's this month so I would definitely bleach. Here is a quote from a CDC article on how to neutralize it.

"Palytoxin can be neutralized by soaking the coral for 30 minutes in a ≥0.1% household bleach solution (1 part 5%–6% sodium hypochlorite [household bleach] to 10 parts water, prepared fresh) (8). Contaminated items should be soaked in diluted bleach before disposal (3)."

Here is a link to the article if you would like to be paranoid as well. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6431a4.htm

I probably wouldn't acid dip my rocks again. I cant say I saw the benefit. I may have done it for too long because the rock I did it to is a little soft now.

I soaked my last batch in saltwater for at least 4 months before it got to my tank. I am sure it had a good bacteria culture on it at the end, just not sure if it was the culture I was looking for. I think it helped, but I have no idea how much. If I was to do that again, I would seed it with a live rock, or some pods, or a crab or shrimp and feed it.

Good luck with the move!

 

[Mattman1977]

Yeah Palytoxin has definitely crossed my mind as I know one of those tanks the rocks came from had several large colonies. I have a large black Rubbermaid container i plan on using to bleach soak the rock. Thinking at least a week. Then let them dry. I watched the brs video on it and it all sounded as good advise.

Once I have the aquascape done I’ll cycle the rocks with lights off with a table shrimp after the cycle is complete I’ll add a few snails and ghost feed it for a few weeks until I’m ready to order the live gulf rock. Planning on adding a few pieces into the refugium as well as a few into the DT. The refugium will have crushed coral in it as well as I’m still leaning towards a rugf to see how well this will work long term. The science is solid and if it’s beneficial or not I’m not sure but I love experimenting.

I’m leaning towards having the tank in the dinning room also but don’t think I would put the sump out there. Just to hot in the summers. Now I would probably put the ato container, reactors and all of the other fun stuff out in the garage.

Feeding the reactors I’m still up in the air over. One hand I want to split it off the return the other I just assume adding a small pump to feed both the gfo and carbon reactor. I’m sure I’ll re plumb this more then once.

I’ve also looked into a Kalk reactor as I’m looking more at lps softie, I want a tank with lots of movement, tank to begin with for sure. Running it on its own pump, looking at the new ato pump from Neptune, that way I know how much Kalk it’s getting no matter what.

Well that’s some of the things running through my head. Better write them down before I forget them haha it’s hell getting old

Matt

 

[w2inc]

I just got my flowmeter cleaned and running again. It seems like my reef octopus pump has either broken in or simply slowed down. It is running about 80 gph less than the first month I had it. Still putting out plenty of water.

Either way, it seems to fluctuate by about 75 gph as a normal random function. Not really the best with my syphon feed overflow.

I am not ready to say go with another brand, but I am not as committed to Reef Octopus as I was earlier. Thought you might want to know.

 

[Mattman1977]

Dang that’s a big fluctuation. That happen just randomly throughout the day or just dropped

 

[w2inc]

The main drop happened when the flow meter was clogged with a snail. I hear it is normal for a pump to settle in and push a little less water after a month or so. It could also be the flow meter. I wish it was easier to move because I would try it on my Vectra L1 and see how consistent it is. My syphon feed still holds after things get adjusted, so there is some level of consistency. I was just kind of surprised about the fluctuation. Here is a screen shot of the apex tracking it over a few days. Looke like it might be mellowing out a little. Could just be the flow meter settling in.