Metal Halide and T5 Grow Corals Better Than LED and Cost Less

[Nonya]

Ecotech makes LEDs. You can't expect them to release the results of an experiment that give other technologies the edge, would you?

 

[Nonya]

It's a shame that came up with the AB+ scheme. They said it was the best compromise between growth and coloration. I would like to have known what the best settings were for SPS growth versus SPS coloration. Then there are settings for lower light corals, softies, etc. What did they learn about them?

Regardless, I've come up with my own preferred settings for the moment.

 

[wrassie86]

Sounds just like the marketing for MH. Except MH have been used for ages.

 

[wrassie86]

It's a shame that came up with the AB+ scheme. They said it was the best compromise between growth and coloration. I would like to have known what the best settings were for SPS growth versus SPS coloration. Then there are settings for lower light corals, softies, etc. What did they learn about them?

Regardless, I've come up with my own preferred settings for the moment.

I thought you built and used diy LED fixtures?

 

[Nonya]

I thought you built and used diy LED fixtures?

In the past and in the future, yes. Currently running Radion gen 3 pros. The big build with all DIYs will begin in a few weeks. It's a matter of waiting for the snow melt so I can retrieve the steel for the stand. I'll be expanding on my original 2011ish DIY spectrum a bit.

 

[JCOLE]

No the statement needs to be " can cost less" not "costs less".
Words matter.
The statement " leds can cost less" is also correct.

Awhile back I did a napkin calculation of top of the line Geisseman mh/t5 unit and enough Radion g4' s to match.
Point was "apples to apples"
Assumption included 18 month bulb replacement.

Watts were close though some leeway was given to the led delivery efficiency increase over mh. ( Pretty undisputed physics fact)

5 year period.

Yes mh was cheaper. But not significantly over the leds.
Same with "leds CAN save energy".

My " black box example made them even as a unit a consumable item



Absolutism just invites unnecessary division.

Without knowing an individuals " exact" needs and wants there is never an absolute " best".

My only point.
For you they are, for others maybe.
For some, not.

Goes both ways.

Why is that so hard to accept?
Maybe it takes an outsider to state the obvious?

Not hard to accept at all. I really like LED's. I started my tank with 4 Marsaqua black boxes and grew Acro's well with them. I have no hate for LED's and honestly, if I could light my new tank adequately with top of the line LED's without breaking the bank then I would have more than likely choose LED's.

If you look at my posts in this thread a month ago before I purchased all of my halide gear I was contemplating using 10 of my black boxes that I had laying around for the new tank.

I have run VHO's, T5's, LED, and Halide over the last two decades. What I can say from my own personal experience is this. Yes, I had good growth and color from the black box LED's. However, when I switched to T5's all of the corals looked brown. It wasn't until two months later that I started to see their true color. I am running all T5's with an actinic reef breeders LED bar and the colors I am getting now are amazing under white light!

Almost 2 years ago with black box lights

This was right after I switched to T5's. You can see how brown most of the pieces look. They didn't look that brown under the black boxes.

Fast forward and this is the result of T5's. No issues with color here.

Again, just a personal preference from experience and I am not saying one is better than the other. For me it comes down to the initial investment purchase of all the lights and the results I will see for that price.

 

[Nonya]

Where did Pete and Joe run off to?

 

[Nonya]

Not hard to accept at all. I really like LED's. I started my tank with 4 Marsaqua black boxes and grew Acro's well with them. I have no hate for LED's and honestly, if I could like my new tank adequately with top of the line LED's without breaking the bank then I would more than likely choose LED's.

If you look at my posts in this thread a month ago before I purchased all of my halide gear I was contemplating using 10 of my black boxes that I had laying around for the new tank.

I have run VHO's, T5's, LED, and Halide over the last two decades. What I can say from my own personal experience is this. Yes, I had good growth and color from the black box LED's. However, when I switched to T5's all of the corals looked brown. It wasn't until two months later that I saw their true color. I am running all T5's with an actinic reef breeders LED bar and the colors I am getting now are amazing under white light!

Almost 2 years ago with black lights

This was right after I switched to T5's. You can see how brown most of the pieces look. They didn't look that brown under the black boxes.

Fast forward and this is the results of T5's. No issues with color here.

Again, just a personal preference from experience and I am not saying one is better than the other. For me it comes down to the initial investment purchase of all the lights and the results I will see for that price.

I can't see their pictures because of the tears of joy clouding my vision.

 

[wrassie86]

I thought you built and used diy LED fixtures?

What size is you're current tank? And if a bigger tank, do you run the radion at full bore? Just wondering if a watt for watt on a larger tank rings true.

 

[Nonya]

I think I posted it about 50 screens ago. It's something like <100 watts each, running violets-blues at 100 and whites at 10, overall power at 92% max between ramp up/down. I'm slowly creeping up the intensity to acclimate a bunch of new frags. I forget the PAR range.

 

[wrassie86]

I think I posted it about 50 screens ago. It's something like <100 watts each, running violets-blues at 100 and whites at 10, overall power at 92% max between ramp up/down. I'm slowly creeping up the intensity to acclimate a bunch of new frags. I forget the PAR range.

Thats mostly what I was after. Tanks

 

[Nonya]

I think I posted it about 50 screens ago. It's something like <100 watts each, running violets-blues at 100 and whites at 10, overall power at 92% max between ramp up/down. I'm slowly creeping up the intensity to acclimate a bunch of new frags. I forget the PAR range.

Regardless, it's all pretty much acting like a big frag tank right now.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

Not hard to accept at all. I really like LED's. I started my tank with 4 Marsaqua black boxes and grew Acro's well with them. I have no hate for LED's and honestly, if I could light my new tank adequately with top of the line LED's without breaking the bank then I would have more than likely choose LED's.

If you look at my posts in this thread a month ago before I purchased all of my halide gear I was contemplating using 10 of my black boxes that I had laying around for the new tank.

I have run VHO's, T5's, LED, and Halide over the last two decades. What I can say from my own personal experience is this. Yes, I had good growth and color from the black box LED's. However, when I switched to T5's all of the corals looked brown. It wasn't until two months later that I started to see their true color. I am running all T5's with an actinic reef breeders LED bar and the colors I am getting now are amazing under white light!

Almost 2 years ago with black lights

This was right after I switched to T5's. You can see how brown most of the pieces look. They didn't look that brown under the black boxes.

Fast forward and this is the result of T5's. No issues with color here.

Again, just a personal preference from experience and I am not saying one is better than the other. For me it comes down to the initial investment purchase of all the lights and the results I will see for that price.

Love those photos!! Beautiful!

 

[Shooter6]

 

[A. grandis]

The Proven Best Lighting Solution for your Aquarium​

Top reasons why Metal Halides with T5 HO is superior lighting for a reef tank to even the most “high end” LEDs currently available to hobbyists and why so many hobbyists have already switched back or are switching back:


• Much Better Coral Growth (especially SPS corals) – This is a big one and we hear it all the time. Metal halides with T5 provide hobbyists with simply better results in terms of coral growth. Quicker and more sustained coral growth especially SPS corals (small polyp stony corals). Healthier corals with better polyp extension. This is just a fact. While LEDs will grow coral, they simply do not grow acropora at anywhere near the rate or success as metal halides do. It's not even close. Growth from LEDs is limited to mainly on top of the coral only - not inside the coral and underneath. The lack of light inside the coral decreases growth and can lead to their mortality. When you switch to Metal Halide + T5 it reverses their decline from LEDs and show massive improvement in coral health. So, if you are thinking of having a mixed reef aquarium, an SPS dominant aquarium or want to keep any type of acropora and you want the best results for that tank – Metal Halides are by far the superior lighting solution to LEDs.


• Better Coral Color and Intensity – Many hobbyists who have used all types of lighting tell us they simply have better color out of their fish and corals, especially SPS, under the right metal halide and T5 lighting combination. The glow and the hue from acropora under Metal Halide with T5 cannot be matched by LEDs. Fish and coral stand out more. Your coral colors are much more true.


• No Disco Ball Effect – Many LED tanks often have that “disco ball” effect. The shimmer in the tank looks unnatural. It appears you’ve landed in Studio 54 or in the middle of a rave party. Some tanks are just difficult to look at because of a lack of light blend. You end up seeing the individual colors of the LEDs in your sand bed. Lame! You don’t get that with metal halide with T5. With metal halides, you have a more natural “quality” sunlight effect. Metal Halides give the tank a more aesthetically pleasing shimmer effect without the disco ball look.


• No Shadowing Problems like with LEDs – Even the most “high end” LEDs create shadowing in your corals. This is a major problem of LEDs. You don’t get this when you use metal halides with T5. This is because Metal halides with T5 give you a better light spread versus LEDs and you do NOT have any shadowing problem like with LEDs. LEDs are intense directly under the diode (hotspots which create stressed, oddly shaped corals) but lose their intensity much quicker as you spread out only just a few inches from the center and don’t cover an aquarium as well as metal halide with T5 leading to this shadowing problem. With metal halide and T5, you have no shadowing underneath or inside your corals like you do with LEDs. You see all parts to your corals better with no shadowing.

• Electrical Savings - NOT what it is made out to be with LEDs – this is because with LEDs, heaters are often running all day long. This is often overlooked. The result of a 200 – 500 watt heater on all day really adds up! This added power consumption negates the expected cost savings in electricity you thought you were getting by using LEDs.


• LEDs often require TWICE the number of units than their MFG recommendation – It’s true. If you want to limit the shadowing from LEDs in SPS tanks and if you want SPS corals to grow like they do under metal halides, you need to purchase TWICE as many LED lights as what the manufacturers suggest. You need to blanket your tank with LEDs to get the same coverage as you do with metal halides. This is because with metal halides you have a much better light spread and more thorough coverage in your aquarium. LEDs are intense directly under the light but quickly lose par as you leave just inches from their center. This leads to shadowing, lack of color and less coral growth. You could end up spending $5,000 on “high end” LEDs or get better results and spend only $1,000 on metal halides with T5.


• Upfront Costs are much Higher with LEDs - if you do achieve any cost savings with LEDs, it generally will take several years at least before you see a breakeven point. At that time, you will probably want to upgrade your LEDs to a different, “latest and greatest” which will cost you even more money to do so and that’s if your LED light is still working! How many times have we heard LEDs last “50,000” hours yet with even the “high end” LEDs several of the diodes in their systems fail within 1-2 years. Most LED companies who say their light lasts "50,000" hours give you only a 1 year warranty on their product!


• Set It and Forget It – with metal halide and T5 lighting, you don’t have to continuously “dial in” your settings to find the right look for your tank like you do with high end LEDs. With metal halide and T5, it is a simple plug and play system to enjoy the results. It is much more user friendly. You have dawn to dusk lighting and you don’t have to consistently worry about finding the right look from your LED. You simply plug it iin and get true coral color, a pop to your tank and a natural shimmer effect in your water.


For the past 7 years, we have heard “LEDs are good but they are not 'there yet'". When are they going to be “there”? At this point and after all this time, it’s not going to happen. We’ve waited long enough for LEDs to top Metal Halides and they just haven’t. Metal Halides + T5 is just a better lighting solution for a reef aquarium especially if you plan on keeping SPS and acropora.

If you care about your tank enough to have the best lighting over it, you will choose MH + T5 over LEDs.

The Proven Best Lighting Solution for your Aquarium

I opened a thread about this article when Oreo accused me of working at Hamilton or for them. LOL! He said I wrote this article and blah blah blah... That was when I actually read it for the first time and opened the thread thanking Oreo for letting me know about it! I thing that whole thread was deleted along with so many other info I have posted here since 2012. Oreo must like this article a lot!!

 

[oreo54]

I said it sounded like you, no more, no less.
Your tendency to " color" something knows no bounds.

 

[A. grandis]

I wish I had the links!

 

[oreo54]

I wish I had the links!

Proof or it didn' t happen. LOL...
Gee sound familiar?
Enjoy your crusade Don Quixote.
Edit since I found the thread in question.
Just because you couldn' t find it does not mean you are being persecuted..LOL
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/metal-halides-are-the-bomb.690290/page-35#post-9115206

I swear you work for Hamilton.
BTW since this is from a vendor and using your criteria..it is all lies and marketing.

Now maybe you can find the post that generated 30 likes .

That my friend takes real talent.
Hint:

You mean like someone who goes on a crusade to champion halides and teardown LED's at every opportunity? Just a hypothetical possibility...
Must you in every thread that mentions LEDs?
Last edited: Sep 26, 2018
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[ReefChasers]

I noticed you suggest comparisons between "halide + t5" or "led" but what about LED + T5?

We started our facility on LED only but we didnt like the shadowing so much and wanted to even out the distribution + utilize every inch of our farm space.

We found the T5 + LED to be a nice combination. Kessil AP9Xs kick out massive par at full power and have quite an even spread when mounted correctly.

We use a mix of blue+ and actinic+ bulbs and we run the leds 100% UV 100% blue. The leds ramp up 2 off 2 and stay max for 8 houes. The t5s kick on for an additional six of what we refer to as "peak peak".

Halides wouldnt work too well in our facility climate control is already a struggle and mounting issues among other things.

Of course we note some of the biggest names in aquaculture running full LEDs 100% without issues.

 

[A. grandis]

The only good thing in that Apple looking PDF:

Does anyone know the name of that dog? Lovely!
I love dogs!