metal halides and heat

[zheka757]

Without doing a load calc or knowing much about your home - I would not call 4 Tons oversized for 2K feet in FLA.

it replaced my old 3Ton!

 

[cilyjr]

12K BTU ductless with Mitsubishi compressors can be had all day, every day and come loaded with enough charge for the line set and sealed lines. $600 or less delivered.

Not in California. At least not in my area. The only place I can source Mitsubishi from is Ferguson. just the compressors for the WR series are around $1200.

 

[cilyjr]

Without doing a load calc or knowing much about your home - I would not call 4 Tons oversized for 2K feet in FLA.

100% agree.
A 2000 square foot home in a place with high humidity and 90° temperatures 4 is barely going to cut it.
Ask the person who installed that to see the manual j.

My guess is if you had a 3 ton unit prior and they did not install an extra supply and enlarge the return your static pressure is probably pretty high.

 

[cilyjr]

@BeanAnimal
I wonder if his coil is icing up

 

[BeanAnimal]

Not in California. At least not in my area. The only place I can source Mitsubishi from is Ferguson. just the compressors for the WR series are around $1200.

Check ebay - several brands. $500 shipped. Comfortotal has Mitsubishi compressors.

 

[BeanAnimal]

@BeanAnimal
I wonder if his coil is icing up

Maybe - 400g of 82f water can’t help with humidity.

OP drill a small 1/8” hole in the supply plenum or use the supply vent closest to the unit and tell is what the air temperature is. Use a reliable kitchen thermometer. Make sure to get a good reading. We can’t fix your system but May be able to give you some insight before you call anybody.

 

[jda]

You all have my sympathies. Texas too. It was mid-80s today... attic fan to come on here in a bit when the temp hits 70 and it will be mid 50s tonight. Even in July, it is good that my halides put heat into my fish room all day. It costs like $8-12 a day to run all three of our AC units and I cannot imagine what some of you have to spend.

If it gets really bad, switch the lighting schedule to light your reef from say 20:00 to 04:00, or so, when it is cooler outside. I had to do this in Missouri when hail took our our AC units and we had to wait a month for new ones. You can move the lights like an hour a day and nothing will notice.

 

[zheka757]

Maybe - 400g of 82f water can’t help with humidity.

OP drill a small 1/8” hole in the supply plenum or use the supply vent closest to the unit and tell is what the air temperature is. Use a reliable kitchen thermometer. Make sure to get a good reading. We can’t fix your system but May be able to give you some insight before you call anybody.

As auto mechanic for 18 years I know a thing or 2 about a/c in general. My compressor gets to the point where it overheats from constantly running during all day at times. And just stops working for like 30 minutes. There is so much involved into my house not being cooled properly, things like I got cheap windows that don't stop heat. I got crappy insulation problems through the house. In General my house was build cheap in regards to insulation.

But to answer your question. Yes, you nailed one of my problems. They replaced my hvac unit only, all the duck work was left alone. I have returns in every single room, all my vents when measured temp with heat hun. At night temp is at 62f. During the day when my a/c in not keeping up, temp from vents. Around 67f.

Im sorry @cilyjr just realized you mentioned about a/c duck work

 

[zheka757]

You all have my sympathies. Texas too. It was mid-80s today... attic fan to come on here in a bit when the temp hits 70 and it will be mid 50s tonight. Even in July, it is good that my halides put heat into my fish room all day. It costs like $8-12 a day to run all three of our AC units and I cannot imagine what some of you have to spend.

If it gets really bad, switch the lighting schedule to light your reef from say 20:00 to 04:00, or so, when it is cooler outside. I had to do this in Missouri when hail took our our AC units and we had to wait a month for new ones. You can move the lights like an hour a day and nothing will notice.

Right now I switched my lights to start at 9am and stop at 3p.m. also if you see in picture i also have 8 t5's and 4 4ft led strips. As well as 3 Chinese version of Kessels.

 

[Lbrdsoxfan]

Right now I switched my lights to start at 9am and stop at 3p.m. also if you see in picture i also have 8 t5's and 4 4ft led strips. As well as 3 Chinese version of Kessels.

Man that's a LOT of par... I'm just watching the thread, good luck with the heat situation.

Seeing all that lighting makes my electric bill go up, let alone even considering using it.

Bless y'all in the rest of the country where your electricity isnt starting @ .33 kwh. I stare @ my thermostat for the A/C and already see $300+ a month now temps are going up in CA.

 

[zheka757]

Man that's a LOT of par... I'm just watching the thread, good luck with the heat situation.

Seeing all that lighting makes my electric bill go up, let alone even considering using it.

Bless y'all in the rest of the country where your electricity isnt starting @ .33 kwh. I stare @ my thermostat for the A/C and already see $300+ a month now temps are going up in CA.

My electric bill just broke record of $600 for past June.. $619 to be exact. Used 3700kw for that month

 

[Lbrdsoxfan]

My electric bill just broke record of $600 for past June.. $619 to be exact. Used 3700kw for that month

I just did quick and dirty math. At my current rates, 3700kw would be $1,400 +- a month. My mortgage is lower than that (not by much), insaneo man. I'd seriously have to consider my tanks lighting situation @ that point or I'd go broke lighting it eventually.

Again best of luck to your situation, I'll be watching the thread for a solution. I'm only on T5's/Led's with both tanks and I'm already staggering lights to keep tank temps down, below 82 degrees.

 

[Yazannreef]

There is no answer for Metal halides heat unfortunately. You can reduce your halide photo period to 2 hours and use your supplements light for the rest. I switched from metal halides last month for that same reason!!

 

[zheka757]

I just did quick and dirty math. At my current rates, 3700kw would be $1,400 +- a month. My mortgage is lower than that (not by much), insaneo man. I'd seriously have to consider my tanks lighting situation @ that point or I'd go broke lighting it eventually.

Again best of luck to your situation, I'll be watching the thread for a solution. I'm only on T5's/Led's with both tanks and I'm already staggering lights to keep tank temps down, below 82 degrees.

Wow and I thought florida is expensive, as they did have raised it in last 2 years.

 

[zheka757]

There is no answer for Metal halides heat unfortunately. You can reduce your halide photo period to 2 hours and use your supplements light for the rest. I switched from metal halides last month for that same reason!!

Yeah, unfortunately this is true fact. I still want to try by switching to 250w 14k bulbs, something tells me it won't be much difference in par readings, but a huge difference in heat. Right now there is about 280F coming from 400w bulbs, 250w bulbs only had 220F heat output.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Yeah, unfortunately this is true fact. I still want to try by switching to 250w 14k bulbs, something tells me it won't be much difference in par readings, but a huge difference in heat. Right now there is about 280F coming from 400w bulbs, 250w bulbs only had 220F heat output.

a watt is a watt. 4 x 400w x 1h = 1.6kWH
Add ballast losses, pumps and other equipment and call It 2kWh
My guess is you are closer to 3kWh during peak, but let’s use 2.

3412 BTUs per kWH = 6824 BTUs per hour that the tank is adding to the AC load. That is over half a ton of AC. The added moisture (evap) doesn’t help.
250W X 4 = 1kWh and will certainly help.

Your AC pull-down should be close to 20f at the coil exit. If not, it May be freezing (why it is long cycling overheating the compressor, even slugging it with fluid instead of vapor). I would certainly check this as well as spray a can or two of coil cleaner outside and rinse it well.

 

[zheka757]

a watt is a watt. 4 x 400w x 1h = 1.6kWH
Add ballast losses, pumps and other equipment and call It 2kWh
My guess is you are closer to 3kWh during peak, but let’s use 2.

3412 BTUs per kWH = 6824 BTUs per hour that the tank is adding to the AC load. That is over half a ton of AC. The added moisture (evap) doesn’t help.
250W X 4 = 1kWh and will certainly help.

Your AC pull-down should be close to 20f at the coil exit. If not, it May be freezing (why it is long cycling overheating the compressor, even slugging it with fluid instead of vapor). I would certainly check this as well as spray a can or two of coil cleaner outside and rinse it well.

I appreciate your input, you obviously know way more then I do, abd by pull down you mean temperature difference before and after coil? If so, my temp drop is 17*F and I was told it's normal for florida weather.
What I also did I dont know if you seing me posting I switched my fan speed inside air handler to 5, it was set on 3 before.
On highest speed by a/c stays at 75-77 now, before when it was on 3 that's when I would get my compressor to overheat and shutoff

 

[jmichaelh7]

You must really love your lighting setup . I would combat your issue to have the same setup!

I run two mh 250w. Not as hot

 

[BeanAnimal]

I appreciate your input, you obviously know way more then I do, abd by pull down you mean temperature difference before and after coil? If so, my temp drop is 17*F and I was told it's normal for florida weather.
What I also did I dont know if you seing me posting I switched my fan speed inside air handler to 5, it was set on 3 before.
On highest speed by a/c stays at 75-77 now, before when it was on 3 that's when I would get my compressor to overheat and shutoff

Pulldown is the difference between the air on the hot side of the evaporator coil - the temperature of the air on the cold side of the evaporator coil. Measuring close to the coil is more accurate than at some random supply vent in the house.

Fan speed and overall system charge, outdoor temperature, etc. will all contribute to the amount of heat that can be moved. Increasing the fan speed may not be ideal for system efficiency, but may be preventing the coil from icing by moving warmer air over it. A properly balanced system is one where the flow at each supply vent is checked and adjusted and the system charge and fan speed are adjusted for the load. A "properly" designed system would run ~80% of the time on the worst (hottest) day of the year. This maximizes water vapor removal and is more efficient than a larger system that runs 50% of the time and leaves higher humidity.

In any case (unfortunately), very few ( I mean VERY FEW) HVAC techs go through the actual calculations and adjustments for system design, system sizing, duct sizing and system balance, let alone understand them well enough to effectively size and balance a system. The vast majority use a rule of thumb and whatever rule of thumb duct they have in stock or will easily fit. Balancing is rarely done either.

So... you can call somebody and ask for help, but how do you know if you are getting a reliable answer and not BS?

That is why I suggested the mini-split. There is a cost, but it will fix the immediate issue without a bunch of BS.

 

[zheka757]

Thank you all for your inputs. For now I think I made my mind up on what to do. Before going into this deep. And expensive. I will try to change my lights to 250w first. Also In about couple months time I already have scheduled to have all my windows replaced to temperature/double glass and Hurricane proof windows. I think that will be a big help as is.
Again thank you all for your help